Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #361  June 29,2009, 7:37pm
Jacquesne's Avatar

knows the answer...42

Veteran

Joined: May 2008

Reno, NV

Posts: 1,357

See profile

Phobeous wrote :
Thanks LizziePooh for the assurance and the warm welcome! I was beginning to wonder if I had inadvertently added tone I was not intending.
The wonderful nature of text. It's hard to realize just how much you rely on nonverbal communication until it's gone .

See that? That's me, trying to use body language while writing. I like to expand on one of my favorite quotes for men to say to women..."If there's two ways you can take something he says, and one of them makes you sad or angry, he meant the other one!"

Sometimes it's best to try and look at the positive instead of assuming the negative. It doesn't always work. And use smilies! They help .

OK, in that instance, maybe not so much .
 
  Reply With Quote
LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #362  June 29,2009, 7:41pm

Unregistered

Joined: May 2008

SoCal

Posts: 7,705

See profile

Jacquesne wrote :
The wonderful nature of text. It's hard to realize just how much you rely on nonverbal communication until it's gone .

See that? That's me, trying to use body language while writing. I like to expand on one of my favorite quotes for men to say to women..."If there's two ways you can take something he says, and one of them makes you sad or angry, he meant the other one!"

Sometimes it's best to try and look at the positive instead of assuming the negative. It doesn't always work. And use smilies! They help .

OK, in that instance, maybe not so much .
Actually, Jac - his tone and intent were conveyed quite nicely through his posts. He wrote well, respectful and with clarity. It is others that chose to see negative in what he wrote. The issue was of comprehension not content.
Last edited by LizziePooh; June 29,2009 at 7:45pm.
 
  Reply With Quote
cameracollector is offline cameracollector Post #363  June 29,2009, 8:36pm
cameracollect…'s Avatar

is not ready for Missouri summer

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2008

Missouri

Posts: 3,364

See profile

Phobeous wrote :
Good grief, misunderstood yet again. I am not against Women's Rights; I am not against equal pay for equal work. I would certainly attend a rally opposing violence against women. I took my daughter to an Obama rally before he was the democratic front runner. I really did not mean to imply that there was a lack of gender based derogatory comments on either side. I am new to the board and did not know this is a topic of regular conversation. Yes, I would probably even fit your definition of a feminist myself.

I still would not seek out a date with someone who felt it necessary to declare they are a feminist.

Do I really come off as a He-man woman hater?
Welcome to the boards, Phobeous.

Some of the misunderstandings, I imagine, are due to using different definitions. To some of us, you do come across as a "he-man woman hater" - or at least, someone who's very traditional - when you say you'd never consider dating a feminist. You sound like a very different man, though, when you say you've taken your daughter to see Obama and you support equal pay for equal work.

For the record (to you and to LizziePooh, of whom I'm very fond), I've been a stay at home mom. I've also been a yuppie DINK (dual-income, no kids couple). I've been in a marriage with kids where both parents worked. I've given up a career to follow my husband to a new job. I've also been a single parent having to start over in a new career.

The real point of feminism - which is often forgotten in the heated rhetoric of the mommy wars - is that women (and men) should have choices. If women made comparable salaries (instead of typically 75% of what men make), then maybe their husbands could choose to stay home with the kids if that's what they'd prefer. I've had tough male police officers in my classes say they'd love to have that choice.

I think it's fair to say that nobody enjoys being around an angry person. I believe feminists have become stereotyped as a bunch of angry man-haters but that's exaggerated and unfair - most of us don't bite unless provoked.
 
  Reply With Quote
Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #364  June 29,2009, 8:52pm
Jacquesne's Avatar

knows the answer...42

Veteran

Joined: May 2008

Reno, NV

Posts: 1,357

See profile

LizziePooh wrote :
Actually, Jac - his tone and intent were conveyed quite nicely through his posts. He wrote well, respectful and with clarity. It is others that chose to see negative in what he wrote. The issue was of comprehension not content.
And here is another prime example!

I meant it not in that he was unclear but in that it was perceived as unclear. We attach a lot of weight to nonverbal communication. His writing was clear but that aspect was lost. And thus people misunderstood his intention.

By saying "look at the positive instead of the negative" I meant to imply that he had been misunderstood, which is true. At the same time, however, if his tone and intent were that clear there wouldn't have been any misunderstanding, would there?

Of course, now I could argue that my intent and tone were unclear as well because you misunderstood me. I'm restricted by the same medium. Oh well.

Then again I could be misunderstanding you and interpreting your tone as being hostile towards what I wrote. The internet is a wonderful tool but it sure can be a confusing one!

Jacquesne
 
  Reply With Quote
Phobeous is offline Phobeous Post #365  June 29,2009, 9:08pm
Phobeous's Avatar

is in a great mood

Newbie

Joined: May 2009

Wisconsin

Posts: 18

See profile

Thank you cameracollector, I guess I should have avoided a topic of heated rhetoric. Oh well.

My intention was to share my opinion (of a somewhat moderate male) that by bringing this to the forefront early in a new relationship, it could be interpreted (or mis-interpreted as the case may be) differently than intended.

Of course if it is a person's intention to weed out certain viewpoints, my guess is that it would be successful. I don't think saying they believe in womens' rights would have nearly the same reaction. But from some of the posts I could be wrong on that one too.
 
  Reply With Quote
LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #366  June 29,2009, 9:24pm

Unregistered

Joined: May 2008

SoCal

Posts: 7,705

See profile

cameracollector wrote :
You sound like a very different man, though, when you say you've taken your daughter to see Obama...
And that was the only negative thing I saw in the post! He! He!

And CC, I am very fond of you too.

And you too, Jac! I did not mean anything negative in my post to you, just trying to clarify that his post was not negative but taken negatively. (And again, that is the reader's error not the writer's). I don't think he needed to change anything that he wrote since if it was viewed for what he actually said and not what someone heard, then the reactions would have been different. And also, phobeous should get a lot of credit for responding courteously and objectively without getting defensive. I really liked that about him. We don't want to chase those types of posters away!!! So he did quite fine and really did everything he could/should in explaining his position.

And CC, I know that all feminists are not extreme. But there are quite a few that are - I think we can all agree to that since I am sure we all have met a few in our lives. I know I have. And whether justly or unjustly - the extreme types are the types that are associated with the women that have to make it a point that they are a feminist. (I think most reasonable people believe in equal rights)

And I should admit that I lied in my post - I am not 35 - I forgot that I am now 36. Yikes! You people age me!!!
 
  Reply With Quote
LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #367  June 29,2009, 9:26pm

Unregistered

Joined: May 2008

SoCal

Posts: 7,705

See profile

Phobeous wrote :
Thank you cameracollector, I guess I should have avoided a topic of heated rhetoric. Oh well.

My intention was to share my opinion (of a somewhat moderate male) that by bringing this to the forefront early in a new relationship, it could be interpreted (or mis-interpreted as the case may be) differently than intended.

Of course if it is a person's intention to weed out certain viewpoints, my guess is that it would be successful. I don't think saying they believe in womens' rights would have nearly the same reaction. But from some of the posts I could be wrong on that one too.
Wow, you learn quick....it is all about the emoticons!!
 
  Reply With Quote
lil_lamb is offline lil_lamb Post #368  June 29,2009, 10:21pm
lil_lamb's Avatar

Veteran

Joined: Dec 2008

california

Posts: 1,364

See profile

well, i'm female... and i just read an article about a gal who's boyfriend is a feminist. so, i guess the ladies ought to consider this too.

the author found value in her feminist boyfriend. personally, i think it would be too much for me.
 
  Reply With Quote
IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #369  June 30,2009, 2:26am
IcecreamMoon's Avatar

Nothing to see here at all...

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2009

Posts: 2,847

See profile

LizziePooh wrote :
Actually, Jac - his tone and intent were conveyed quite nicely through his posts. He wrote well, respectful and with clarity. It is others that chose to see negative in what he wrote. The issue was of comprehension not content.
Lizzie,
You know you are one of my favorite people here and forever my favorite cool girl buddy, but I'm going to disagree. I understood the posts and I did not just see the negative. I saw 2 separate notions - one I agreed with and said so, but did not see the need to just repeat at length what was already stated, the other I stongly disagreed with and still do.

And I do not believe it was a matter of miscommunication or using smilies either, because both ideas were quite clearly stated, and there was nowhere to use smilies there at all.

Phobeous,
My post was by no means a personal attack. I'm generally here to laugh, not attack. But I'll try to make myself crystal clear this time, so that we can put all this behind us and move on to laughter and some crazy fun.

I saw 2 distinct ideas in your posts:
1. Extreme Femnism is bad
I wholeheartedly agree. And it's just as bad for men as it is for women. After we burnt all the bras, some women gradually started turning into men, we've graduated from Merilyn Monroe to female bodybuilders, and that's just the physical aspect. There is much more to that. Nor do I agree with the way Extreme Feminism treats men because I happen to love most of them, and even have this crazy idea in my mind of marrying one of them some day. Enough said here because we are in full agreement on this point. And I will never be a supporter of this movement for as long as I live, for many various reasons, some of which have actually caused a lot of grief in my own life.

But then there is your (and some men's) view of
2. Feminism = Extreme Feminism
And this I strongly disagree with. The notion of Feminism was rooted in Equal Rights. There is no implication of chauvinism against either gender. Prior to Feminist Movement women were treated like second class citizens with very few rights. A woman's job was to bear and raise children, cook, clean, shop, do laundry and have sex with a husband she may or may not like, but she definitely needs him because she has very limited education and employment opportunities in order to survive on her own.

I'm forever grateful to the movement of liberation, which allowed me, and other women, to live the life we live today and be strong, independent, knowledgeable, yet feminine individuals. So yes, I'm a Feminist.

And I have a big problem with the fact that when I state that I'm a Feminist, you would simply refuse to date or even talk to me, based on the assumption that when I say Feminist I actually mean Extreme Feminist, which could not be further from the truth. And you did explicitly state that you would not date a woman, who calls herself a Feminist. To me that is equivalent to me ordering seafood and receiving a steak. It's just not the same thing and you can't simply assume that it is, especially without asking questions.

Having said all that, I do not define myself in the real world as a Feminist or Extreme Feminist. I define myself as a regular woman with some great qualities, some of which were allowed by the Feminist movement, as well as some terrible faults that are simply my own. But I do not want to live in the world, where the movement that allowed me to achieve a lot of my knowledge and ensuing opportunities, is automatically viewed as some sort of crazy extremism.

True Feminism is to be admired because it benefited both women and men. And thank you lil-lamb for pointing out that there are plenty of wonderful, confident, amazing men, who would have no problem being regarded as followers of true Feminism. In fact, I think I know quite a few of them around here, and I'm honored to call them my friends.

I hope you are one of them, and I also hope we can become friends.
 
  Reply With Quote
IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #370  June 30,2009, 3:11am
IcecreamMoon's Avatar

Nothing to see here at all...

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2009

Posts: 2,847

See profile

LizziePooh wrote :
And I should admit that I lied in my post - I am not 35 - I forgot that I am now 36. Yikes! You people age me!!!
Now I get it all...
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« Help! The guy i like just got out of a LTR! | Dating | Taking myself out on a DATE :)!! »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“It's important to understand the way a site works. Rigidly assuming / insisting that eH works likes all the others you're used to isn't utilizing the site functions to your best advantage. No.... ... ” –  Wiseman2

Join the “First contact on eHarmony, smile, questions, email?” discussion

“ If you have yet to meet, you don't know him or whether you two will form a connection. Connections formed over e-mail tend to be fantasies. You will see this echoed over and over by experienced ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “How do i recoonect with him again?” discussion

“ Then it's a bit premature to worry about being friend-zoned. The first step is to go out on dates! What specific steps did you try? How many women did you ask out in person? Did you buy a ... ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “For women to answer: How to avoid the friend zone” discussion

“ This is an old thread. She asked this in 2010. By now they are likely very exclusive or very over. ” –  shapeShifter79

Join the “is there a reason to ask if we're exclusive?” discussion

“ I'm sure he wouldn't get that. And I can't be sure that was the actual message. But it sems kind of likely to me.” –  boomer_gal

Join the “Why am I not successful?” discussion

“Hi eccemuliere and welcome to eHA.On an internet forum like eHA, you're going to get a wide variety of responses; some you'll like and some you won't. It's best to focus on the ones that speak to ... ” –  Sassafras54

Join the “Being blown off, or something else?” discussion

“ Although I have ignored my gut at times, in hindsight it's always been right, in terms of recognizing bad choices. QUOTE] But once we realize our past mistakes, we can use our reason to clue us ... ” –  eccemuliere

Join the “Is Your Gut Leading - or Misleading You?” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 4:51am.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0