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zeb431 zeb431 is offline
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zeb431 Looks like both are going into gifted programs. ;-)

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marthak wrote :

zeb431 wrote :


spykedjoker wrote :


ScottK wrote :


catlin wrote :


I'm not saying all obese people have medical problems that make it hard to lose weight. but can't you just admit that some of them do? Even if they don't have a medical problem, quit telling us to stop eating and exercise. WE KNOW THIS, and we try but it's HARD!!!!


I think he might be suggesting that there is a MAJOR difference between Overweight, and Morbidly Obese.


I myself believe that genes DO play a part in this game, and that for some people its harder to lose weight, even regardless of their calorie intake, and calorie expenditure through exercise.


I don't have any "facts" to back that up, beyond knowing that before 100+ years ago, for thousands upon thousands (or, if you believe in Evolution of Humans, hundreds of thousands) of years, humans were faced with never ending risks of famine. To me, there is no question that our bodies learned to deal with this, by optimizing the storage offat. The better optimized it was, the longer people could live through famine. Hence, through natural selection, the people whose genes preserved the fat, and expended as little as possible during famine, survived, and the people who didn't, died off. Thus, most of us are predisposed to being overweight, given a plentiful supply of (cheap) food.


So to me, there is no question a lot of our bodies are ingrained to attempt to store the fat as long as possible, even during times of "feasts", because our genes still have the "famine" worry encoded into it.


Now, that being said, I do NOT think that this allows the Morbidly Obese or larger, touse genetic dispositionas an excuse as to why they are *SO* large.


Once you move into that category, it moves from a gene thing, to aself discipline problem. Not only in the gluttony aspect, but in the lack of movement/exercise aspect too.


For me, I don't mind Overweight matches because of what I say above, but I do mind getting Matched with the Morbidly Obese, not only because I don't believe they share the same things as I, (ie, like to go for walks/hikes, etc), but because I believe it also indicates a problem in their mental well being.


Yes, cp30 and others, I am waiting for you to slam me some more for that comment.








Exactly, it is possible to still be overweight when you diet and excersise propperly. It is pretty much impossible to be morbidly obese when you diet and excercise properly. And while many things can affect the amount of calories your body burns, it is still impossible to gain weight when you burn more calories than you take in.


suggest you google amish obesity FTO gene


short answer, even people with BOTH defective genes, that preclude obesity, can be overridden by exercise and diet.


in short, STOP USING GENETICS as an excuse why you are fat (not a specific person)


this groundbreaking study, pretty much dispels the "its my genes' fault I am fat" myth. Like most of us have known for a long time. MOST of my paternal male family members, and ALL of the paternal genetically related females are very fat to morbidly obese. I'm NOT. Why not? cause genes don't determine obesity like genes determine eye color. Propensity is not the same as determined genetically. Its not your mom's or dad's fault. MOST OF THE TIME it is YOUR FAULT!


stop finding excuses and start finding reasons. nothing tastes as good as sexy feels.





well back to my last two sets of shoulders, then abs.


Shoulders and abs? Aye, Aye Captain Crunch.


Specifically to catlin's comments, as someone also in the struggle, Zeb is rightthatgenetics is getting too much blame. The major reason it's so hard is that many of us have killed our metabolisms through a lifetime of yo-yo dieting. We go for the latest diet craze, exercise only moderately, loose lots of weight, feel great, then within a couple of years gain it all back with interest.Our next diet attempt is then made harder because we have lost muscle, gained fat and sent our metabolism into the toilet.


So, feeling hopeless, we give up on checking the scales each week, we give up monitoring our portion sizes and before long we develop internal blinders that keep us from looking at anything below our shoulders when we catch ourselves in the mirror. As long as we don't pay attention to those reminders of reality, we can be happy and comfortable with ourselves.


All I can really add is that you will nevercontrol what you don't measure. If you or a someone close to you isn't motivated to make a wholesale change inlifestyle, take control over small issue. As a friend join you on a walk, decline the refill basket of breadsticks, or something similarthat will start to build into a collection of healthier choices.Once you have success taking control of one small detail,youbegin to build the confidence tomake other life-affirming choices. Small consistent choices snowball...both the good and bad ones.
am I being moderated to death


last 4 posts vanished to where my mismatched sock mates went.


lets see if this one makes it.
- September 10th, 2008, 09:25 am
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catlin wrote :

spykedjoker wrote :


I'm pretty sure that it is still simple physics (yes, physics, not biology) that if calorie intake is less than calorie outout, that weight will be lost. You cannot possible gain wieght if caloric intake is less than caloric output regardless of biological circumstances.


Yes, it may be harder for some one with a biological impairment to lose weight as easily as some one without that impairment, but it isn't impossible.


Plus, the more you workout, the more effective your body gets at burning calories.


And most importantly, YOU NEED TO MAKE SURE THAT THE WAY THAT YOUR ARE TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WETHER YOU ARE OVERWEIGHT OR NOT IS ACCURATE. BMI IS NOT ACCURATE SINCE IT DOESN"T TAKE INTO ACCOUNT BONE STRUCTURE OR FORM. BODY FAT % WHILE DIFFICULT TO ACCURATELY MEASURE IS THE ONLY WAY TO TRUELY DETERMINE WHETHER YOU ARE OVERWIEGHT OR NOT. JUST BECAUSE YOUR BMI SAYS YOU ARE OVERWEIGHT DOES NOT MEAN YOU ARE FAT OR OVERWIEGHT AND DOESN"T MEAN THAT YOU CAN IDENTIFY WITH PEOPLE THAT ARE ACTUALY OBESE AND SYPATHIZE WITH THEIR POSITION. AS SOMEONE THAT WORKS OUT AND IS OTHERWISE HEALTHY YOU ARE NOT ONE OF THE POEPLE THAT ARE BEING DISCUSSED IN THIS THREAD.


I'm sorry, but I disagree. I learned a lot when I was in vet tech school, and from my dad who had major health problems. I like to learn so I would find out information on my own just to understand what was going on. I am %100 SURE there are biological problems that cause weight gain, or the opposite, inability to gain weight. Some people need less caloric intake than others because their body processes them differently. The way food is broken down and processed is a complex system and can be effected by many different sources. And if you say you can't use veterinary medicine as a comparison, your wrong, because the basic functions are the same for both animals and humans. There may be small differences, but nothing that would effect this discussion.





I don't use BMI, I judge by how my close fit and I have a small bone structure. Weight can vary so it's not a reliable method. I'm sorry to tell you, I AM ONE OF THEM. Since my feet were so bad, I had to have major surgery to correct them. During the time I was off my feet I gained 50 pounds, and no, I did not pig out, I actually watched what I ate although it was not a "diet". Now that I can do the things I did before, I'm struggling with losing weight. Again, you have NO IDEA how hard it is to lose weight. I've been up and down my whole life and each time it gets harder. You get down when you work so hard and see very little results, and even once you hit a decent weight, keeping it off is just as hard.








I'm not saying all obese people have medical problems that make it hard to lose weight. but can't you just admit that some of them do? Even if they don't have a medical problem, quit telling us to stop eating and exercise. WE KNOW THIS, and we try but it's HARD!!!!
So it's hard. It all comes down to willpower.





I had a relationship with a woman years ago who had been morbidly obese only a few years before I met her. She revealed to me that on the first day after she decided to lose the weight that she was only able to walk a few hundred feet before she was completely out of breath and had to stop. When I met her she was doing an extreme aerobic exercise routine for at least an hour from 3 to 5 times a week. She had ramped up her metabolism to the point that she ate more than I did; and I have always had a high metabolism and at that time ate like a horse.





This reminds me of a post I read a short time ago by someone who described his first and only date with a woman. He said she ordered two meals, also ate some off of his plate, and talked about how she usually ate like a bird...
- September 10th, 2008, 09:38 am
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again....NO
- September 10th, 2008, 09:40 am
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Come on people, this many posts for a yes or no question?
- September 10th, 2008, 09:41 am
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spykedjoker wrote :

ScottK wrote :


catlin wrote :


I'm not saying all obese people have medical problems that make it hard to lose weight. but can't you just admit that some of them do? Even if they don't have a medical problem, quit telling us to stop eating and exercise. WE KNOW THIS, and we try but it's HARD!!!!


I think he might be suggesting that there is a MAJOR difference between Overweight, and Morbidly Obese.


I myself believe that genes DO play a part in this game, and that for some people its harder to lose weight, even regardless of their calorie intake, and calorie expenditure through exercise.


I don't have any "facts" to back that up, beyond knowing that before 100+ years ago, for thousands upon thousands (or, if you believe in Evolution of Humans, hundreds of thousands) of years, humans were faced with never ending risks of famine. To me, there is no question that our bodies learned to deal with this, by optimizing the storage offat. The better optimized it was, the longer people could live through famine. Hence, through natural selection, the people whose genes preserved the fat, and expended as little as possible during famine, survived, and the people who didn't, died off. Thus, most of us are predisposed to being overweight, given a plentiful supply of (cheap) food.


So to me, there is no question a lot of our bodies are ingrained to attempt to store the fat as long as possible, even during times of "feasts", because our genes still have the "famine" worry encoded into it.


Now, that being said, I do NOT think that this allows the Morbidly Obese or larger, touse genetic dispositionas an excuse as to why they are *SO* large.


Once you move into that category, it moves from a gene thing, to aself discipline problem. Not only in the gluttony aspect, but in the lack of movement/exercise aspect too.


For me, I don't mind Overweight matches because of what I say above, but I do mind getting Matched with the Morbidly Obese, not only because I don't believe they share the same things as I, (ie, like to go for walks/hikes, etc), but because I believe it also indicates a problem in their mental well being.


Yes, cp30 and others, I am waiting for you to slam me some more for that comment.








Exactly, it is possible to still be overweight when you diet and excersise propperly. It is pretty much impossible to be morbidly obese when you diet and excercise properly. And while many things can affect the amount of calories your body burns, it is still impossible to gain weight when you burn more calories than you take in.
I agree with your post, but want to add something being a women that falls in the catagory of BBW also know as full figured. For me its not the size that matters when it comes to a relationship its the person personality whether big or small. I am a single mom of an active toddler, but I am heavier set. I may not be happy with where I am at but I have learned to accept the things of my past that attributed to how I got here.


Not everyone is predispositioned by genetics and some are. Other people have had traumatic events that exposed them to becoming big. Example being I was heavier set as a teen but because I have a large solid bone structure any extra makes me look bigger then I am.I left home and became really active, and drop the inches but my weight remained the same. At 19 I was a 6ft, 220, "48"38"48" for me that was skin tight solid couldn't pinch an inch .Then I was in a car accident and put on the extra weight after due to my injuries causing in activity. Everyones body is different health wise, another person my weight at a different height probably wouldn't be as healthy as I still am right now. Now that I am older, and have had a child via Csection, its been harder to tone my body. My measurements now being "58"46"60" I may see things I need/want to change about my body but the reality is the one who I am meant to be with will love me the way I am now, as he will love me when I get my body to "52"42"52" as I have to keep in mind that I am older and this is more realistic for someone who has bared children.


On that note, people shouldn't judge others big or small. Or assume which only makes a ass-u-me. That everyone that is big is big because of lifestyle choices or being predispositioned by genetics. I am not making exuses for people or myself being heavier set. But reality stand not everyone chooses to be that way, not everyone eats unhealthy which leads them to being heavier set. Just like there is "racism in this world there also is bigism/weightism"





* also studies have proven those at a lower income class are exposed to becoming heavier set/obese due to the garbage in the foods that they can afford.


* its cheaper for junkfoods then it is for the healthy alternative especially now more then ever with the way the economy is going everywhere around the world.


- September 10th, 2008, 10:04 am
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marthak marthak is offline
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zeb431 wrote :

marthak wrote :


zeb431 wrote :


spykedjoker wrote :


ScottK wrote :


catlin wrote :


I'm not saying all obese people have medical problems that make it hard to lose weight. but can't you just admit that some of them do? Even if they don't have a medical problem, quit telling us to stop eating and exercise. WE KNOW THIS, and we try but it's HARD!!!!


I think he might be suggesting that there is a MAJOR difference between Overweight, and Morbidly Obese.


I myself believe that genes DO play a part in this game, and that for some people its harder to lose weight, even regardless of their calorie intake, and calorie expenditure through exercise.


I don't have any "facts" to back that up, beyond knowing that before 100+ years ago, for thousands upon thousands (or, if you believe in Evolution of Humans, hundreds of thousands) of years, humans were faced with never ending risks of famine. To me, there is no question that our bodies learned to deal with this, by optimizing the storage offat. The better optimized it was, the longer people could live through famine. Hence, through natural selection, the people whose genes preserved the fat, and expended as little as possible during famine, survived, and the people who didn't, died off. Thus, most of us are predisposed to being overweight, given a plentiful supply of (cheap) food.


So to me, there is no question a lot of our bodies are ingrained to attempt to store the fat as long as possible, even during times of "feasts", because our genes still have the "famine" worry encoded into it.


Now, that being said, I do NOT think that this allows the Morbidly Obese or larger, touse genetic dispositionas an excuse as to why they are *SO* large.


Once you move into that category, it moves from a gene thing, to aself discipline problem. Not only in the gluttony aspect, but in the lack of movement/exercise aspect too.


For me, I don't mind Overweight matches because of what I say above, but I do mind getting Matched with the Morbidly Obese, not only because I don't believe they share the same things as I, (ie, like to go for walks/hikes, etc), but because I believe it also indicates a problem in their mental well being.


Yes, cp30 and others, I am waiting for you to slam me some more for that comment.








Exactly, it is possible to still be overweight when you diet and excersise propperly. It is pretty much impossible to be morbidly obese when you diet and excercise properly. And while many things can affect the amount of calories your body burns, it is still impossible to gain weight when you burn more calories than you take in.


suggest you google amish obesity FTO gene


short answer, even people with BOTH defective genes, that preclude obesity, can be overridden by exercise and diet.


in short, STOP USING GENETICS as an excuse why you are fat (not a specific person)


this groundbreaking study, pretty much dispels the "its my genes' fault I am fat" myth. Like most of us have known for a long time. MOST of my paternal male family members, and ALL of the paternal genetically related females are very fat to morbidly obese. I'm NOT. Why not? cause genes don't determine obesity like genes determine eye color. Propensity is not the same as determined genetically. Its not your mom's or dad's fault. MOST OF THE TIME it is YOUR FAULT!


stop finding excuses and start finding reasons. nothing tastes as good as sexy feels.





well back to my last two sets of shoulders, then abs.


Shoulders and abs? Aye, Aye Captain Crunch.


Specifically to catlin's comments, as someone also in the struggle, Zeb is rightthatgenetics is getting too much blame. The major reason it's so hard is that many of us have killed our metabolisms through a lifetime of yo-yo dieting. We go for the latest diet craze, exercise only moderately, loose lots of weight, feel great, then within a couple of years gain it all back with interest.Our next diet attempt is then made harder because we have lost muscle, gained fat and sent our metabolism into the toilet.


So, feeling hopeless, we give up on checking the scales each week, we give up monitoring our portion sizes and before long we develop internal blinders that keep us from looking at anything below our shoulders when we catch ourselves in the mirror. As long as we don't pay attention to those reminders of reality, we can be happy and comfortable with ourselves.


All I can really add is that you will nevercontrol what you don't measure. If you or a someone close to you isn't motivated to make a wholesale change inlifestyle, take control over small issue. As a friend join you on a walk, decline the refill basket of breadsticks, or something similarthat will start to build into a collection of healthier choices.Once you have success taking control of one small detail,youbegin to build the confidence tomake other life-affirming choices. Small consistent choices snowball...both the good and bad ones.


am I being moderated to death


last 4 posts vanished to where my mismatched sock mates went.


lets see if this one makes it.
Waiting with bated breath for your moderated comments. Then again, I had tuna for lunch so wouldn't that be "baited" breath?
- September 10th, 2008, 11:04 am
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I can't speak for men and whether or not they are attracted to "women of size". But I am not attracted to "men of size"... er..uh... I mean men who are seriously out of shape and packing a ton of excess bodyfat.


I don't care what anybody says. Call it shallow if you insist. But whether of not a person cares about his/her physical appearance & condition is important to me. Sure its "what's inside that counts". But the outside reflectsthe inside. Isn't"what's inside" that drives us to be our best in all areas, including health & fitness?


I'm not saying a guy needs to be perfectly chiseled, with extremely well-developed muscles & low enough bodyfat to see the muscles. That certainly is admirable... and if a very cool, sweet guy just happened to come wrapped in a rockin' hot physique-package, I would consider it a delightful bonus. But no, its not necessary.


However it is necessary for him to have some semblance of reasonable health & fitness goals. Nobody... nobody is packing a ton of excess bodyfat unless he/she is neglecting his/her diet & workouts. Everyone goes through stages of slacking off a little, and perhaps gaining a few,temporary pounds of extra fat. But total and consistent neglect? No, thank you.
- September 10th, 2008, 12:34 pm
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zeb431 zeb431 is offline
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zeb431 Looks like both are going into gifted programs. ;-)

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marthak wrote :

zeb431 wrote :


marthak wrote :


zeb431 wrote :


spykedjoker wrote :


ScottK wrote :


catlin wrote :


I'm not saying all obese people have medical problems that make it hard to lose weight. but can't you just admit that some of them do? Even if they don't have a medical problem, quit telling us to stop eating and exercise. WE KNOW THIS, and we try but it's HARD!!!!


I think he might be suggesting that there is a MAJOR difference between Overweight, and Morbidly Obese.


I myself believe that genes DO play a part in this game, and that for some people its harder to lose weight, even regardless of their calorie intake, and calorie expenditure through exercise.


I don't have any "facts" to back that up, beyond knowing that before 100+ years ago, for thousands upon thousands (or, if you believe in Evolution of Humans, hundreds of thousands) of years, humans were faced with never ending risks of famine. To me, there is no question that our bodies learned to deal with this, by optimizing the storage offat. The better optimized it was, the longer people could live through famine. Hence, through natural selection, the people whose genes preserved the fat, and expended as little as possible during famine, survived, and the people who didn't, died off. Thus, most of us are predisposed to being overweight, given a plentiful supply of (cheap) food.


So to me, there is no question a lot of our bodies are ingrained to attempt to store the fat as long as possible, even during times of "feasts", because our genes still have the "famine" worry encoded into it.


Now, that being said, I do NOT think that this allows the Morbidly Obese or larger, touse genetic dispositionas an excuse as to why they are *SO* large.


Once you move into that category, it moves from a gene thing, to aself discipline problem. Not only in the gluttony aspect, but in the lack of movement/exercise aspect too.


For me, I don't mind Overweight matches because of what I say above, but I do mind getting Matched with the Morbidly Obese, not only because I don't believe they share the same things as I, (ie, like to go for walks/hikes, etc), but because I believe it also indicates a problem in their mental well being.


Yes, cp30 and others, I am waiting for you to slam me some more for that comment.








Exactly, it is possible to still be overweight when you diet and excersise propperly. It is pretty much impossible to be morbidly obese when you diet and excercise properly. And while many things can affect the amount of calories your body burns, it is still impossible to gain weight when you burn more calories than you take in.


suggest you google amish obesity FTO gene


short answer, even people with BOTH defective genes, that preclude obesity, can be overridden by exercise and diet.


in short, STOP USING GENETICS as an excuse why you are fat (not a specific person)


this groundbreaking study, pretty much dispels the "its my genes' fault I am fat" myth. Like most of us have known for a long time. MOST of my paternal male family members, and ALL of the paternal genetically related females are very fat to morbidly obese. I'm NOT. Why not? cause genes don't determine obesity like genes determine eye color. Propensity is not the same as determined genetically. Its not your mom's or dad's fault. MOST OF THE TIME it is YOUR FAULT!


stop finding excuses and start finding reasons. nothing tastes as good as sexy feels.





well back to my last two sets of shoulders, then abs.


Shoulders and abs? Aye, Aye Captain Crunch.


Specifically to catlin's comments, as someone also in the struggle, Zeb is rightthatgenetics is getting too much blame. The major reason it's so hard is that many of us have killed our metabolisms through a lifetime of yo-yo dieting. We go for the latest diet craze, exercise only moderately, loose lots of weight, feel great, then within a couple of years gain it all back with interest.Our next diet attempt is then made harder because we have lost muscle, gained fat and sent our metabolism into the toilet.


So, feeling hopeless, we give up on checking the scales each week, we give up monitoring our portion sizes and before long we develop internal blinders that keep us from looking at anything below our shoulders when we catch ourselves in the mirror. As long as we don't pay attention to those reminders of reality, we can be happy and comfortable with ourselves.


All I can really add is that you will nevercontrol what you don't measure. If you or a someone close to you isn't motivated to make a wholesale change inlifestyle, take control over small issue. As a friend join you on a walk, decline the refill basket of breadsticks, or something similarthat will start to build into a collection of healthier choices.Once you have success taking control of one small detail,youbegin to build the confidence tomake other life-affirming choices. Small consistent choices snowball...both the good and bad ones.


am I being moderated to death


last 4 posts vanished to where my mismatched sock mates went.


lets see if this one makes it.


Waiting with bated breath for your moderated comments. Then again, I had tuna for lunch so wouldn't that be "baited" breath?
that would be BAIT breath
- September 10th, 2008, 12:34 pm
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zeb431 wrote :

that would be BAIT breath
LOL!
- September 10th, 2008, 12:36 pm
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LawyerDan wrote :

Come on people, this many posts for a yes or no question?
But we're not even to 100 pages yet ...
- September 10th, 2008, 12:55 pm
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