How much would girls endure?


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Oxymoron is offline Oxymoron Post #1  February 10,2012, 11:44am
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Hey guys, quick scenario:

Back when I was a teenager I met a girl who always came into my work. I could always tell she had a crush on me, but at the time I had a girlfriend, so I always shirked off any attempts for a hang out that she offered. (She didn't keep trying, once she knew I had a girlfriend she was just friendly but no other attempts.) I dated my girlfriend for a few years, and we broke up.

When I was ready to date again, (about 8 months or so) I thought of girls who I wanted to go out with. This girl who had a crush on me came to mind, and I found her to ask her to lunch. She was always fun to talk with and she was hilarious.

Turns out she got married in the few years we hadn't spoken. So obviously I didn't ask her to lunch. We just had friendly conversation and then we, as friends, hung out with other friends as a group including her husband and I was friends with both of them.

Eventually we stopped speaking again, and then about a year later, she contacts me. Turns out her husband cheated on her and she immediately divorced him. (This happened about 7 months ago.)

We spoke and I found this out, and I figured I knew why she was contacting me. So I cut to the chase and asked her out to lunch, she accepted. It was very casual, we talked for hours and then called it a day.

I actually felt a pretty good connection, so I asked her out again and planned a more non-casual lunch three days in advance at a nicer place. We ate and again had awesome conversation.

I still felt the connection, but I didn't want to pressure her into anything as I didn't know how ready she was to officially go on "dates" (We didn't actually call our lunch "dates" just called it lunch. no labels so I wasn't sure.)

I really wanted to know if she liked me, so I asked her on a more official date (still without calling it a date, but it was a day activity and then dinner and a movie) and keep in mind I am paying for everything and always have, so I feel it's implied that it's more than just two friends still being friends. She doesn't ever speak a word about paying anything herself.

After that I felt like if she really didn't want to date me, she wouldn't accept another offer for another dinner. I really am starting to like her so I plan another dinner with her. I took her to a really, REALLY nice place. Very awesome and fancy food. A place where people really only go for special occasions or to take business partners, etc.

So during all this, there were times where I was sitting down and when she passed by me she touched my shoulder when she greeted me, and we hug before and after each meeting. (except the first one)

So after that I ask her to come to my place and watch a movie we both haven't seen, so we plan that a few days in advance and we watch the movie.

I never got the vibe or body language that said "Go ahead and hold my hand" or "Go ahead and kiss me" So I didn't, still a hug before and after and nothing was awkward.

So we've been out 5 times now. She works a lot as a pharmacy technician, and I don't ever try to pressure her for another hang out by asking to go out again too soon. I always wait a day and then make plans about 3-5 days in advance.

So I like her more, and I ask her if she would like to make plans again. She accepts again, BUT says the ONLY day she is free is this Tuesday, and I realized after I made the plans that Tuesday is Valentine's Day. So we made plans for that day.

I have no idea why, but with her I have a great fear of rejection, where if I try to hold her hand she will back away. We have never ever talked about our exes, so I don't even know if after 7 months she is ready to date a romantic interest or even date exclusively.

But on the other hand everything is totally comfortable, we are hilarious together and nothing is awkward and I don't get the feeling that she doesn't want to date me, but I don't get the vibe that she wants me to kiss her or cuddle or hold hands or anything either.

So that's where I am, I have a very unique and awesome date planned for this Valentine's day, (she doesn't know yet what we're doing) and I'm scared to death about even just holding her hand or saying these are "dates" I want her to know that I like her and see her as romantic potential but I don't want to do it before I know for sure that she's ready or accepting of the idea.

I could really use some advice and an outside view of what's going on.
Last edited by Oxymoron; February 10,2012 at 2:38pm.
 
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LDJ is offline LDJ Post #2  February 10,2012, 2:40pm
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I was once in this girl's very same shoes and I can tell you that I was petrified to approach the subject even though I was sure the guy was into me. I just wouldn't go there in case I was wrong about it. So, he was feeling exactly the same way. Finally, I got up the nerve to ask him what his intentions with me were and his response was "to have an intimate romantic relationship". And so we did and a lovely one at that.

I'm thinking she was dropping a HUGE hint by suggesting the Valentines Day date as her only availability. And most girls don't miss the que of the ultra high end restaurant dinner date. So, you're going to have to figure out a way to approach the subject of intentions with her. I'd suggest waiting until the end of the V Day date and then asking her if her only being available that day means the two of you are Valentintes, then move in for the kiss.

Good Luck.
 
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Ephemera is offline Ephemera Post #3  February 10,2012, 2:43pm
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Couple more vague 'dates' and she's going to give up on you. Step it up.
Last edited by Ephemera; February 10,2012 at 2:43pm. Reason: I'd have given up long ago.
 
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eharmoneed_1 is offline eharmoneed_1 Post #4  February 10,2012, 2:53pm
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Great answer veteran. Gosh, you seem like such a nice thoughtful and respectful guy oxymoron. Such a rarity these days! I hope your Valentine's date works out.

Take veteran's advice and move in for the kiss at least by the end of the date. What have you got to lose? If she doesn't reciprocate. with your thoughtfulness I wouldn't worry, you'll find somebody else in no time!

At least you have a date on V-day. I however will be a party of one on but I will be watching my fave movie - Love Potion #9 - so I'll be fine. Does anyone know a nice Tate Donovan look a like?? - lol
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #5  February 10,2012, 2:59pm
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The confusing part is you talk about paying for a date is "obvious" that it's more than friends...but yet you have paid for all of the times out with her and yet it's not obvious at all...

I hate the whole "who pays" type threads...but under certain circumstances...I have a huge issue when a woman tries to take advantage of a guy...And for her...even if you all were friends...she doesn't even offer to pay for anything? Not once? This is bothersome...

Seriously...I would call her up and either try to meet or at least talk before Tuesday...do it this weekend...And point blank ask if she is ready and willing to try dating you....Why not find out now instead of keep going out and playing this guessing game...The answer is either yes or no....You won't fall over and die if it's no...

It's a lot better to find out now before you get more emotionally invested...

Another thing to watch out for is you both putting each other in this "fantasy" type thought process...that you look good to her because you aren't her cheating ex husband...And she is this woman who you know as a friend...but that's it...you really don't know her on an emotionally or physically intimate level...

You are liking the "idea" of a great relationship...Which is what we all want...but you need to look at what is right in front of you...

She should easily be able to answer your question to know whether she is over her divorce....and whether you are someone she really wants to date...

I would be very careful if she plays the, "Ohhh...I want to, but I need to take it really slow so let's just keep doing what we've been doing"...Which is YOU paying and YOU planning and giving her everything a relationship would...without you getting one single thing back...

A healthy relationship is about mutual interest...I'm not saying it's about dollars spent and that has to be 50/50....But effort and planning should be....Even if she bought groceries and cooked you a wonderful meal...or even paid for movies, etc...She certainly has a decent job...and no kids (right?)...

So...I would absolutely urge you to do this before Valentine's Day...Why sit there through the entire evening without knowing whether she has any interest or not? You are planning this whole big thing and it could be for someone who has no interest...who just sees you as a nice guy...but just as a friend...

I wish you luck...
 
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jj314 is offline jj314 Post #6  February 10,2012, 3:59pm
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Ingytravel wrote :
Seriously...I would call her up and either try to meet or at least talk before Tuesday...do it this weekend...And point blank ask if she is ready and willing to try dating you....Why not find out now instead of keep going out and playing this guessing game...The answer is either yes or no....You won't fall over and die if it's no...
I respect your opinion, but, with most women's emphasis on "chemistry", I rather strongly feel (and at least my experience has borne this out), that trying to "talk" about having a relationship is pretty much a chemistry-killer. I agree with the others who say that you really just need to man-up and go for it...
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #7  February 10,2012, 4:04pm
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jj314 wrote :
I respect your opinion, but, with most women's emphasis on "chemistry", I rather strongly feel (and at least my experience has borne this out), that trying to "talk" about having a relationship is pretty much a chemistry-killer. I agree with the others who say that you really just need to man-up and go for it...
I think there is a complete difference if they were on actual dates...and they BOTH know this...and he was just waiting to make a move...Then I don't think a guy should ask.."Can I kiss you? Can I hold your hand?"...

That would be awful...

But this guy has no clue if she has any interest in him...They haven't been dates....and she certainly hasn't put in one ounce of effort on her end to even show her like of him...Letting him do everything...That is why I don't see it as dating...And if he's not even sure of this...Just going in for a kiss could be even more awkward if she backs off....Then they are going talk about it in a terrible moment after a denied kiss...

I believe in this particular case....that asking if she is ready to be dating and is interested in giving it a go with them...If she says "yes"...than it's all a GO for Valentine's Day...

Even with her saying yes...I would still say it's a red flag that she hasn't offered to plan or pay for anything.

Anyway...that's what is great about the boards...we all have different thoughts on a subject.. I certainly respect yours as well
 
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Oxymoron is offline Oxymoron Post #8  February 10,2012, 5:04pm
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No kids, and I do feel like it's one of those things where if I talk about it or bring it up, it ruins the mood/chemistry/anything I had going for me that I didn't know I had.

I don't do the whole "he pays she pays" debate. I just always pay for my dates until its boyfriend/girlfriend exclusive. Then from there its trade offs or just someone tips the other pays etc etc trade off planning. It's just the way I've always courted. I open doors, always pay, pull out chairs, etc. I don't mind it at all, I prefer it.

I do agree with you guys though, I really just need to man up and go for it. I think I'm going to shift the first activity of the date to something where it's easy to hold hands. Then after it all I'll make the last thing an easy situation that's not weird for a kiss attempt. (If the hand holding goes well.)
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #9  February 10,2012, 5:14pm
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Oxymoron wrote :
No kids, and I do feel like it's one of those things where if I talk about it or bring it up, it ruins the mood/chemistry/anything I had going for me that I didn't know I had.

I don't do the whole "he pays she pays" debate. I just always pay for my dates until its boyfriend/girlfriend exclusive. Then from there its trade offs or just someone tips the other pays etc etc trade off planning. It's just the way I've always courted. I open doors, always pay, pull out chairs, etc. I don't mind it at all, I prefer it.

I do agree with you guys though, I really just need to man up and go for it. I think I'm going to shift the first activity of the date to something where it's easy to hold hands. Then after it all I'll make the last thing an easy situation that's not weird for a kiss attempt. (If the hand holding goes well.)
Except you spent the entire first post saying that these haven't been "dates"....So...that's why it's strange to pay for everything.....Even as a friend one shouldn't take advantage of someone and I always offer to treat my friends if they get a dinner or lunch for me....I get them the next time...

With a date...I don't pay for the first date..(even though I offer my share)....but by the 3rd date I am offering to pay/plan something as I WANT the man to feel desired and know I'm interested....It's not about 'have to'...It's about giving and taking in a relationship...

That's why I asked you....What has she done to show any interest in you? She hasn't paid or planned anything, she didn't give any clear signals for wanting to be near you at your house during the movie...she hasn't tried to hold your hand either....

So why are you now sure from your first post that she is attracted to you?

I mean, hey...it's your life...and my entire answer would have been absolutely opposite if you had said that you have been "dating" this woman and you all are both feeling all this amazing chemistry...and she snuggled on the couch with you and nuzzled on your shoulder....and you were just waiting to kiss her....As I wrote...I have never had a guy ask for a kiss...But I have also NEVER gone out with a guy (night after night) and him not know that I am interested and it being a date

However...your OP was saying that you have no clue and these haven't been dates...

The above bold would be why I am saying it's not going to ruin a single thing if you just figure out if you all are dating or does she see you as just a friend...Again...being turned away for a kiss when you think she is attracted to you and she isn't....That to me would be much more awful and painful than just clarifying in a simple question...

I wish you luck either way!!
 
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Oxymoron is offline Oxymoron Post #10  February 10,2012, 6:03pm
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Ingytravel wrote :
Except you spent the entire first post saying that these haven't been "dates"

What has she done to show any interest in you?
You're right I didn't think about it like that, and yes I did say that. I'll consider clarifying if I sense the right opportunity before Tuesday. I guess I've just been wanting them to be dates so bad I've just convinced myself it should be unspokenly obvious but it's not obvious depending on how she's viewing it.

As far as her showing interest all I really have to go on is that she is really enthusiastic about accepting my offers and is always smiling at me in certain ways. She is always texting me back immediately after I text her even though I haven't replied in a while. And a longer than normal hug after the 4th hang out. All those could be me misreading though, as they say you see what you want to see.
 
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