Is debt a deal breaker for you?


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LostInCornfield is offline LostInCornfield Post #1  October 8,2011, 3:55am
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I'm 30 years old. There was a time in my life when I was younger where I had a significant amount of bad debt. Gross credit card misconduct, some student loans and a car payment that I shouldn't have had. Yep, I was that guy.

After going on a massive budgetary diet for a few years and selling nearly everything I own on eBay, I became totally 100% debt free approximately two years ago.

I operate today on a budget surplus with no debt at all and I'm saving up for a down payment on a house. I'm not a rich man by any stretch and my income is probably on the low side, but I'm just very, very careful with my money.

So my question is, does it make me a total jerk if I choose not to date someone or choose to end it with someone once they make it known about their financial struggles? Is debt a deal breaker for you?

I never outright ask a question about finances and try to avoid the subject especially on a first date. But somehow it has a funny way of coming out in conversation where somewhat might say "yeah I'll be paying my student loans off till the end of time" or "I wonder what it would be like to be debt free."

My total knee-jerk reaction is to run away and hide. I guess for me it's the paranoia of having to go through climbing out of debt again and I'm looking for someone who has already kinda made that journey. I don't judge people because that would make me a hypocrite. But I mean thinking long term, if you end up marrying somebody (and that's the eventual point of this right?) you pretty much assimilate all of their debts.
Last edited by LostInCornfield; October 8,2011 at 5:49am.
 
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LDJ is offline LDJ Post #2  October 8,2011, 4:24am
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This a very good question and you are wise to consider the "financial health" of anyone you are seeking to make your life partner. It depends on a few factors imho.

First, debt is more than an burden/obligation, it is a reflection of a person's character and overall responsibility in life. This is what I'd be looking at more than the actual debt. I'd be looking to see if this person has the commitment you had to rectify their situation o r are they of a nature where this will be a repeating scenario, a cycle of irresponsible spending followed by overwhelming debt.

If you are convinced that this is not the person's nature overall and you see a genuine intent to better their financial health, then concern yourself with is the time it will take for them to do that, the length of time required to say work a second job in order to become debt free. I have known two couple where the wedding was postponed until one overcame a debt obligation by working a 2nd job. Both couples are now married and doing fine, in both cases student loans were the issue.

So, at thirty years old, I would preceed with caution on this one, keep your eyes and ears open during those first dozen or so dates. Once a discussion of exclusivity arises, it would not be unreasonable for you to start asking questions prefaced by the statement that you are seeking to get married and the fiancial situation of both individuals therefore matters. At your age, if a person was not willing to discuss this and be honest about finaces and debt, that would, for me, be a deal breaker. But you will collect a lot of information through observaton in the those first few months, of her spending habits on both large and small ticket items, affinity for brand labels etc.
 
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Mike74 is offline Mike74 Post #3  October 8,2011, 4:41am
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My total knee-jerk reaction is to run away and hide. I guess for me it's the paranoia of having to go through climbing out of debt again and I'm looking for someone who has already kinda made that journey. I don't judge people because that would make me a hypocrite. But I mean thinking long term, if you end up marrying somebody (and that's the eventual point of this right?) you pretty much assimilate all of their debts.
I agree with your approach. Financial responsibility is a significant point of compatibility for me, and the lack thereof in a partner is a major dealbreaker. I'm mostly concerned with a woman's abilitiy to live within her means -- the existence of debt wouldn't concern me as much as the lack of a reasonable means to satisfy the debt. Debt significantly out of proportion with her earning ability, or debt incurred for frivolous reasons would be an issue for me.

Your observation above is absolutely correct -- I was unpleasantly surprised to learn during my divorce that, in my state, a spouse can be required to pay a share of the other spouse's student loans, even if the loans were incurred before the marriage! Fortunately, my ex-wife's student loans had been paid down sufficiently that my "share" was not material, in light of the overall financial arrangements between us. I will definitely look into a prenuptial agreement if I marry again.
 
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BikerBeagle is offline BikerBeagle Post #4  October 8,2011, 4:43am
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Personally, I think you are making a mistake in your logic - "debt" and "credit" are two different things, but you seem to have managed to confuse them and treat *any* amount of "owing money" as a negative. This is not going to bode well for your dating future, I'm guessing, as it would seem you may have a real hard time looking at someone and not seeing "$$$".

I would consider "financial responsibility" a dealbreaker, sure ...I may even consider "debt" (as in excessive, irresponsible use of multiple credit cards, etc) a dealbreaker ...but I wouldn't consider their credit score a dealbreaker necessarily.

On a side note, one thing you definitely need to do is some research on the way credit works ...going multiple years without good, responsible use of credit (no car payment, no credit card, etc) is not helping you in any way, shape, or form. Credit is the American Dream and you pretty much *have* to have it (and use it responsibly) because, in reality, there is one thing just as bad as "bad credit" and that's "no credit".
 
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beachgirl5 is offline beachgirl5 Post #5  October 8,2011, 4:54am
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A jerk? No, it makes you very wise.
 
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Special-K is offline Special-K Post #6  October 8,2011, 5:01am
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Kudos to you for being "that guy" and turning things around for yourself.

You do realize that once you have saved what you need for a down payment on a house, you will be in debt again. That's not a bad thing, just something to consider as you are judging those you date.

I think you are assuming that simply b/c someone says they have credit card(s) and/or student loan(s), they are unable to manage their debt. If one has debt that exceeds their ability to pay it back, that is not a good thing. If one has manageable debt, that's quite another.

For me, debt is not the issue, it's about being financially responsible and having the ability to pay it back... while maintaining some discretionary income. A bad credit score would not bode well if I were considering marriage, as this might directly impact me... but you're not likely to find out someone's credit score on a first date...

... or second, for that matter.
 
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LostInCornfield is offline LostInCornfield Post #7  October 8,2011, 5:18am
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BikerBeagle wrote :
Personally, I think you are making a mistake in your logic - "debt" and "credit" are two different things, but you seem to have managed to confuse them and treat *any* amount of "owing money" as a negative. This is not going to bode well for your dating future, I'm guessing, as it would seem you may have a real hard time looking at someone and not seeing "$$$".

I would consider "financial responsibility" a dealbreaker, sure ...I may even consider "debt" (as in excessive, irresponsible use of multiple credit cards, etc) a dealbreaker ...but I wouldn't consider their credit score a dealbreaker necessarily.

On a side note, one thing you definitely need to do is some research on the way credit works ...going multiple years without good, responsible use of credit (no car payment, no credit card, etc) is not helping you in any way, shape, or form. Credit is the American Dream and you pretty much *have* to have it (and use it responsibly) because, in reality, there is one thing just as bad as "bad credit" and that's "no credit".
Just to clarify, yes I fully recognize that if I buy a house, I would technically be in debt again.

I also recognize the difference between good debt and bad debt. Certainly, a house loan or a car loan is good debt because you have something to show for it. As long as it wasn't something you couldn't actually afford to begin with.

This whole experience made me something of a credit czar. I have a score of around 800. I do have two credit cards... one with a zero balance for emergencies and one that I use for everyday purchases. I just pay that one off at the end of the month and reap the cash back rewards. So yes, I know what you are saying but thank you for pointing that out for those that don't know.

I'm referring to someone with a lot of bad debt such as credit card misuse or excessive student loans. I know someone who has $150K in student loans because they kept changing their major and I know several people in credit card oblivion.
Last edited by LostInCornfield; October 8,2011 at 5:46am.
 
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LostInCornfield is offline LostInCornfield Post #8  October 8,2011, 5:23am
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Special-K wrote :
A bad credit score would not bode well if I were considering marriage, as this might directly impact me... but you're not likely to find out someone's credit score on a first date...
Wouldn't that be handy?!
 
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LostInCornfield is offline LostInCornfield Post #9  October 8,2011, 5:25am
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LDJ wrote :
This a very good question and you are wise to consider the "financial health" of anyone you are seeking to make your life partner. It depends on a few factors imho.

First, debt is more than an burden/obligation, it is a reflection of a person's character and overall responsibility in life. This is what I'd be looking at more than the actual debt. I'd be looking to see if this person has the commitment you had to rectify their situation o r are they of a nature where this will be a repeating scenario, a cycle of irresponsible spending followed by overwhelming debt.

If you are convinced that this is not the person's nature overall and you see a genuine intent to better their financial health, then concern yourself with is the time it will take for them to do that, the length of time required to say work a second job in order to become debt free. I have known two couple where the wedding was postponed until one overcame a debt obligation by working a 2nd job. Both couples are now married and doing fine, in both cases student loans were the issue.

So, at thirty years old, I would preceed with caution on this one, keep your eyes and ears open during those first dozen or so dates. Once a discussion of exclusivity arises, it would not be unreasonable for you to start asking questions prefaced by the statement that you are seeking to get married and the fiancial situation of both individuals therefore matters. At your age, if a person was not willing to discuss this and be honest about finaces and debt, that would, for me, be a deal breaker. But you will collect a lot of information through observaton in the those first few months, of her spending habits on both large and small ticket items, affinity for brand labels etc.
All gold. Thank you for putting it that way.
 
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LostInCornfield is offline LostInCornfield Post #10  October 8,2011, 5:30am
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Mike74 wrote :
I agree with your approach. Financial responsibility is a significant point of compatibility for me, and the lack thereof in a partner is a major dealbreaker. I'm mostly concerned with a woman's abilitiy to live within her means -- the existence of debt wouldn't concern me as much as the lack of a reasonable means to satisfy the debt. Debt significantly out of proportion with her earning ability, or debt incurred for frivolous reasons would be an issue for me.
This ^^^^^^ The bold part.

I think this is how I was trying to articulate it and you just said it better.
To me excessive bad debt is indicative of another potentially hazardous character trait and that's someone's inability to live within their means. I think that's why for me it's almost an instant deal breaker.
 
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