Do men have any dating advice for less attractive women?


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questioning is offline questioning Post #1  September 2,2011, 12:53pm
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I am a woman in her early 40s. I have been doing online dating for about 15 years with very little success.

If I message men, I always get closed out. If they comment on why, it is that they are not attracted to me.

If I get to a first date, they always end it by stating that they are not attracted to me. A few have commented that they hoped I just had bad photos, but after meeting me in person, they just don't feel any attraction.

Before a date, I usually get my hair and makeup done professionally. However, I am tall, skinny, no curves and have a man-ish face so there are limits on what a makeover can do.

The only men who ever want to date me are men with no education/job skills and with substance abuse issues. I don't really want to date someone like that, as they keep bugging me to pay their bills/rent. Also, I have a professional career and graduate education, so we have little in common.

I went to counseling but all the counselor suggested was having one-night stands or dating men who were already married, but that was depressing. It would provide some short term sex, but doesn't lead to a LTR. And, I cannot imagine messing with someone's marriage/home/family that way.

I have tried flirting with and even asking out men in my church or from recreational athletic activities, but I always get rejected because they are not attracted to me.

It is very hard to try to find a relationship when men are almost universally not attracted to me.

Does anyone have other suggestions? I would especially appreciate advice from the men on what would make them consider a less attractive woman.
 
 
PictureImperfect is offline PictureImperfect Post #2  September 2,2011, 3:23pm
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I wish I had a helpful answer for you, Questioning (I didn't have a real date until I was in my 40s), but I will say that any counselor who would give that kind of advice is worse than no counselor at all.
 
 
HelenDanger is offline HelenDanger Post #3  September 2,2011, 3:37pm
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Ask for an expert opinion as a reality check. Get a consultation with a conservative plastic surgeon to find out if a professional even agrees there's a problem with the way you look.

If the answer is no, believe it. In that case your problem is self esteem. For God's sake don't go back to that screwy therapist who wants you to become a barfly! Find someone sensible to talk to, and work through your issues.
 
 
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #4  September 2,2011, 3:53pm
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Dear questioning,

It would help if you posted a photo of yourself in your photo album. Without that, we can only guess at the issue.

questioning wrote :
However, I am tall, skinny, no curves...
Is your bodyweight too low--what is your BMI? Some women have anorexic body-weight ideals which is associated with a stick-to-deathcamp figure and no curves. Alternatively, maybe you should do a bit of strength training for definition.

See? It would be so much easier if we could simply see you.

wrote :
Does anyone have other suggestions? I would especially appreciate advice from the men on what would make them consider a less attractive woman.
Wealth?
 
 
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #5  September 2,2011, 3:55pm
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HelenDanger wrote :
In that case your problem is self esteem.
Very possible. I remember someone on this forum who went on and on about this ear deformity that made all the women despise him, but it wasn't noticeable unless he pointed it out!
 
 
D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #6  September 2,2011, 4:04pm
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If we accept that men want a woman shorter than he is, you're a bit limited to tallish men. That seems a managable problem, though, as there are plenty of tall men.

That you say you are thin and still getting rejected is suprising.

I agree with HelenDanger (your therapist is an idiot.)

***

Some suggestions:

- Do not look beneath your class! Rather, try to make sure you are appealing at an intelluctual level to men in your class.

- Don't even spend any time with low-class people. Make sure to avoid their mannerisms, values, ways of speaking ... (I will dump for any sign of low-class.)

- Get quality clothes. Go to a competant retailer (Nordstrom or better.) Ask for some help filling the mission (a skilled salesperson wants you to be satisfied and come back; if they try to oversell on your first visit, bail.)

- Skip the professional hair and makeup. Odds are it just seems overdone or tacky. Needy or desperate are bad attributes to convey. Also, looking "overdone" implies that you let yourself go on a daily basis - no way I am signing up for that.

- Don't lose sight of compatibility and values, goals. Looks can get attention, but all they are is a price of entry - you still have to carry the conversation, and have a life that moves and matches mine.

- Don't be passive. Recommend restraurants which you like, activities you enjoy. Plan your meetings so that you feel at your best, energized, motivated (and always share the cost - that's essential for me.) Seem alive, participative. Make your partner laugh, engage them with thoughtful, provoking conversation.

- Think about your appearance choices. Are you willing to change hairstyle? Clothing? If you give off a vibe of having given up, guys are going to skip you, and talk to a woman who hasn't.
Last edited by D_Lion; September 2,2011 at 4:07pm.
 
 
shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #7  September 2,2011, 4:05pm
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I just found a thread by "questioning" many months ago. Folks asked her to post her profile or more info and she never responded. Dare to break out of your shell and give us more details! Being too-shy won't get you anywhere except where you've already been.

questioning wrote :
Never could get dates in my 20s or 30s unless I was paying the guy's rent and car payments.
Wealth! The other alternative.
 
 
Nanette is offline Nanette Post #8  September 2,2011, 4:40pm
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i like all of d_lions advice (the "low class" people thing is a bit iffy... i mean really) except for sharing the cost. thats the dating equivalent of paying the guys rent and/or car payment.
 
 
ami1uwant is online now ami1uwant Post #9  September 2,2011, 5:51pm
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i have gone back through past topic posts of yours and they have a similar theme....you wonder why you havent gotten a man over the last 20 years.

I didnt post in your past threads as have others....

One thing you said.....

I just asked a guy friend what he thought of my troubles. He said "You are an 8 in education and career achievement. You are fairly shy but are really trustworthy, emotionally stable, sweet, kind and accepting, so your personality is probably at least a 9. However, you are tall, skinny, no curves and flat-chested. I have seen you dressed up nice, where a pro had fixed your hair and makeup. Even then, you are a 3 or 4 in looks. Most guys see women like that as a short-term or ONS. For long-term, quality guys want a 6 or above in looks."


For me I have found I have been more that I had a pattern of being attracted to smaller chested women who were may A or small B.

Without seeing a picture its hard to say what you can do to fix it.

I do wonder if now its a self fullfilling prophecy....

for me I find attraction comes from liking who you are talking to so if you have a quirk about you like a "janice" voice or you act more like a man in your behavior I would loose attraction.

Do you have long or short hair?

If i saw your picture would I wonder if you were a man or woman?

What I also think has happened....you havent accepted where you fall and so you have been going after ones that were out of your league who turned you down but you ignore the guys interested in you. Were you cluelss of a guys interest until after the fact?
 
 
Gr8Guyn2008 is offline Gr8Guyn2008 Post #10  September 2,2011, 7:43pm
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questioning wrote :
I am a woman in her early 40s. I have been doing online dating for about 15 years with very little success.

If I message men, I always get closed out. If they comment on why, it is that they are not attracted to me.

If I get to a first date, they always end it by stating that they are not attracted to me. A few have commented that they hoped I just had bad photos, but after meeting me in person, they just don't feel any attraction.

Before a date, I usually get my hair and makeup done professionally. However, I am tall, skinny, no curves and have a man-ish face so there are limits on what a makeover can do.
Personally I am not seeing a problem with "tall, skinny, no curves". Well I guess that I have a problem with the tall part but that is because of my shortness. I am not getting a real grasp of a "man-ish face" but I am wondering if a different hairdresser may be in order here to help you get a hair style that will highlight your face in a more feminine way.

The only men who ever want to date me are men with no education/job skills and with substance abuse issues. I don't really want to date someone like that, as they keep bugging me to pay their bills/rent. Also, I have a professional career and graduate education, so we have little in common.

I went to counseling but all the counselor suggested was having one-night stands or dating men who were already married, but that was depressing. It would provide some short term sex, but doesn't lead to a LTR. And, I cannot imagine messing with someone's marriage/home/family that way.
I don't know where you found a therapist that would make such suggestions but you need to get you a new one that has integrity and takes his / her work and patients seriously.

I have tried flirting with and even asking out men in my church or from recreational athletic activities, but I always get rejected because they are not attracted to me.

It is very hard to try to find a relationship when men are almost universally not attracted to me.

Does anyone have other suggestions? I would especially appreciate advice from the men on what would make them consider a less attractive woman.
I have a couple of suggestions:
1) You are not qualified to judge your own un-attractiveness.
2) You have assigned your "attractiveness" with some physical attributes. Attractiveness is not just what is on the outside, it comes from within. I am perceiving from your post that a lot, maybe all, of your un-attractiveness is in your head. Get thee to a real therapist who can help you come to grips with your perception of you and the reality of you. You need to remember the story of the ugly duckling.
 
 
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