What if you discover your date packing heat?


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Sparkles56 is offline Sparkles56 Post #1  October 3,2010, 4:59pm
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Hi Everyone!

I'd like to discuss this advice item:

dateing advice, carry gun, deal breaker

Because this was published before my time on these forums, I didn't get to jump in the fun while it was occurring! I always enjoy a thorough discussion, so let's get started.

First, I would like to establish common ground that we can all agree on. And when I say 'all', I mean everyone from the most peace-loving pacifist to the most ardent supporter of concealed carry privileges. That common ground is one of peace. Even though we are a very diverse group, I think we can all agree on the following:

1. We abhor violence. The thought of severely injuring, let alone killing, another human being is repulsive to us and we hope that never occurs.
2. We want to remain peaceful in our daily activities. We would like to go about our daily business without being interrupted by a mugging, robbery, or other crime.
3. We all have bad things happen to us - people do things that make us angry. Regardless of how severe that thing might be - tempers should never flare. We should never act out in anger. We should only act against true threats - not 'boogeymen in the closet' so to speak - and we should only act in a manner that causes a threat to no longer be a threat.

The problem with this debate is it's so emotional. People tend to not use hard facts and figures. And when they do, they make the mistake of citing something from the NRA or The Brady Campaign or some other obviously biased source. In the past decade or so, many peer-reviewed studies have been published by social scientists on this topic. In a subsequent thread, I'll review what the social scientists have to say. But for now, I'd like to address some common themes I saw in the comments on the advice item.

1. "What if my date flies off the handle or gets angry?"

Good question! I would like to expand it, however, and ask the following: "What if, when you're eating at your favorite steakhouse, your date sees the steak knife and flies of the handle or gets angry?" In close quarters, a knife can be deadlier than a firearm, because the victim of the aggression still does not have time to react to the attack. A knife never runs out of bullets, and the wounds it creates can be worse than those of a bullet. And there are hundreds of knives at a steakhouse! A gun is not a magical thing that makes previously pacifist people violent - if your date is screwed up enough to shoot someone without cause, that person is screwed up enough to attack by other means.

But instead of scaring everyone about steak knives, let me address the concern. As a population, people who spend the time and money to get a concealed carry license aren't the ones you have to worry about. First, the kind of people who would normally attack in anger normally have some type of domestic violence or assault conviction. They don't start acting out willy-nilly, and (at least in my state) you can't legally own a firearm, let alone get a concealed carry permit, if you have any kind of DV or assault conviction on your record. Second, If a concealed carry permit holder gets into one bar-scuffle one night, then his guns and permit are gone. The risk is too high to partake in any kind of illegal activity.

2. "Won't a concealed carry permit holder someone shoot the scraggly-lookin guy on the street because he's a percieved threat?"

See #2 above, and the "common ground" statement at the top. Most concealed carry permit holders are very aware of their surroundings, and will only respond to an actual threat. If you are a scraggly-looking guy and you aggressively approach a permit holder while you are holding a gun or a knife, you can expect the permit holder to draw on you - and then if you come to your senses and run the other direction, you can expect NOT to get shot. If you're just a scraggly-looking guy and you bump in to a permit holder - or even steal his wallet while doing so - you can still expect NOT to get shot. At least that's the case where I'm from.

3. "Only John Wayne cowboy types get concealed carry permits."

This is false. In the classes attended by myself and friends we have seen all types: Republicans, Democrats, the clergy, doctors, lawyers, older folks, young people. You'd be surprised who you would see if you went to a local class. In my circle of friends, there are THREE permit holders who are liberal vegetarians. These cats revere life to such an extent that they will not eat flesh, but at the same time they see the value in being able to protect themselves.

Next post I'll address the question of, "Where do you go / what is wrong with you that you think you need to carry a gun". And I'll go over some studies that reflect the 'true nature' of things rather than a view projected by the NRA or The Brady Campaign.

Cheers,
-Sp
 
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lunabeach is offline lunabeach Post #2  October 3,2010, 5:18pm
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I'm a gun owner!!! It was the coolest Christmas present ever. But I have no desire to carry - I've received zero training in self defense/fire arms and feel it would be stupid of me to carry a weapon with that in mind.

As far as a date carrying? I've honestly never considered it, but I can say I'd react differently to someone with knowledge carrying a gun vs. a schmuck like me who just has cool, generous friends.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #3  October 3,2010, 6:49pm
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Responsible, intelligent guy? Wouldn't bother me a bit.

Immature, foolish guy? I'd run for the hills, But I'd probably do that even if he wasn't armed.
 
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Pilgrim007 is offline Pilgrim007 Post #4  October 3,2010, 7:15pm
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I have a little different view. I have served in the service for 26+ years and have been trained to kill with firearms. In war we do not wound, there are just too many of the bad guys coming to try and be John Wayne. I am very comfortable around hand guns and am in the process of getting my concealed carry permit for the states. Additionally, the last woman I dated was a sheriff’s deputy who always had to carry. Almost everyone who legally carries understands the law and the penalties if they make a “mistake”. It is the criminal that has no fear of the law that is the issue.

If I had a date who was carrying I would want her to explain why she carries and make certain she has the maturity that goes with the responsibilities of those who carry. If she is not “responsible” I probably should not be dating her anyway. IMHO
 
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MusicmanTN is offline MusicmanTN Post #5  October 3,2010, 9:57pm
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It depends on the circumstances. I am almost always armed where legal, but almost no one will ever know. I don't flaunt it, I don't constantly readjust(or if I have to it is in a natural movement and non revealing way) and I definitely don't pull a gun out and wave it around. I carry for self protection in a crazy world where even in a small town of less than 500 people I've lost friends to gun violence for simply being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Those friends were some of the most peace loving and giving people I've ever known. The point is this, I'm a responsible non violent person in a world full of craziness and anything can happen at any moment, anywhere, at any time. And I've also had extensive training in firearms and the permit to carry.
Now, would I carry into a bar? Absolutely not. Would I carry into a friends house? Unlikely. Would I carry walking up and down the streets in Memphis? You betcha. Will my date be uncomfortable if she knows that I do have a gun? Hopefully I won't be in a location that I deem it necessary to carry one to begin with. Assuming that it's a long drive to meet, I'll likely have one with me but leave it locked in the truck when we meet. Unless he/she is terrified of guns in general(usually from either personal bad experience or simple lack of knowledge) then a carrying person who acts with maturity, responsibility, and sensibility shouldn't bother the other, for the fact is that that type of person doesn't make it obvious. After all, if he/she were in a situation that called for using a gun in self protection, the last thing that person would want is to make themselves a primary target immediately before the threat!
 
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pammersw is offline pammersw Post #6  October 3,2010, 10:23pm
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musicman, glad to hear that you'd lock the gun in the truck during your date as you first meet her...

I had an experience this summer where my first-meet date didn't bring up guns beforehand, and rather surprised me when he pulled it out of his truck and put it in his pocket as we were getting ready for a walk through a national monument park (a very safe place as we were just about the only ones there except for the ranger). He kept it with him there, and at a concert in the park the next day. It made me feel uncomfortable because we hadn't talked about any of the stuff you mentioned. It also made me wary of him...which didn't help the getting-to-know-you process any!

I posted about this in the first thread in response to that article, but thought I'd mention it here again.

Those with guns, with concealed-carry permits -- be certain to discuss this with your date ahead of time! Don't just spring the idea of having a gun along on the date on them at the last minute. They may need time to digest the idea and get comfortable with it. And, if it's a first meet -- you might want to keep it locked up for awhile, till he/she is more comfortable with you, before bringing it out.
 
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chimerical is offline chimerical Post #7  October 3,2010, 10:55pm
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chawks64 wrote :
Responsible, intelligent guy? Wouldn't bother me a bit.

Immature, foolish guy? I'd run for the hills, But I'd probably do that even if he wasn't armed.
I agree with this. I recently found out that a date of mine regularly carries a handgun. How did I find this out? We were at his house, and it was just laying haphazardly on the coffee table, loaded. I was not at all comfortable with him having a gun just laying around. I didn't trust him to be safe with it at all.

On the other hand, my one friend carries a gun, and when I was complaining about the carelessness of my date, my friend showed me that he was armed, and it didn't bother me at all. He's a very mature guy, and I trust him with a loaded weapon.

So, to me a weapon isn't really a deal-breaker (or a deal-maker). Instead, it mostly serves to highlight someone's trustworthiness/responsibility factor. My comfortableness with his carrying a gun just reveals how comfortable I am with him in general.
 
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MusicmanTN is offline MusicmanTN Post #8  October 3,2010, 11:04pm
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I completely agree that something as serious as a gun shouldn't be sprung on an unsuspecting date! Not only could it be a distraction from the date itself, but the shock could lead to distrust and being wary of the person carrying...not the ideal 1st impression! Usually with me the subject of guns comes up early before a 1st date though, it falls in line with interests such as outdoor activities(hunting, sport shooting). I try to establish at least a few common interests before the 1st date, both to give me an idea of the person and what kind of date and location would be proper.
 
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texpete is offline texpete Post #9  October 3,2010, 11:58pm
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I am a bit alarmed by some of the comments here. I grew up in WV and most of us were taught how to safely handle firearms so we could go hunting with Dad. Every girl and boy had to take a hunter safety class in 7th grade. What bothers me is some of you seem to have forgotten the most important word on your permit..Concealed. If you are advertising to people that you are armed, I would suggest that you are carrying to impress or intimidate. I keep my gun in my car and only carry it on me if I am travelling. It's a matter of risk assessment. I would never pull my weapon unless I faced certain death. I can't speak for where you Fellas take your dates but I can assure you, that I wouldn't take a date somewhere I felt the need to be armed. Also if you just met she's already looking for signs of psychosis, so she is not likely to enjoy show and tell about your shiny gun.
 
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Wiseman2 is offline Wiseman2 Post #10  October 4,2010, 4:33am
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If you need to show up for a date carrying a gun...there is a problem .

Since gun laws and attitudes vary so much, carrying a handgun may be a fashion statement in the wild west, but as weird as "Taxi Driver" (the movie) "You talking to me?" in the northeast.

Even if the person has a reason to carry a handgun, such as law enforcement, why would you wear it on a date?
 
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