melman is offline melman Post #1  June 29,2010, 6:30pm
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Pulled from another thread:

Gr8Gurl wrote :
I recently began reading "Have him at Hello" (confessions from 1,000 guys about what makes them fall in love, or never call back) by Rachel Greenwald. One of her other books was recommended in the dating forums and I picked up this one instead because it caught my eye. I have to admit... it's a great book so far. It boils down to the fact that there are often very specific reasons that men don't call women back... and it doesn't have anything to do with indimidation. Being the complicated creatures we are... women send wierd (often unintentional) signals that men pick up on... men ultimately use these signals in the first one or two dates to unfairly decide if we have long term potential before REALLY getting to know the real us. Sometimes, we "market" ourselves wrong without realizing it... this book is helping me see that and giving me some helpful tools to make some minor adjustments.
For some reason, the word "unfairly" grabbed my eye. I guess this is the first time I've heard anyone describe a guy's decision not to pursue a woman as "unfair".

Personally I think it's more unfair if someone intentionally changes their behavior to hide who they really are. If that's really even possible.

What would be an example of one of these "unintentional signals" that supposedly prevents a guy from "REALLY getting to know the real us" ?
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #2  June 29,2010, 6:42pm
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I don't know about unfair or not, but I do know that it takes a long time to actually know someone, even a little bit. It isn't about attraction or chemistry - it's about who a person genuinely is...and that is determined by their actions over a period of time.
 
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nightling is offline nightling Post #3  June 29,2010, 6:47pm
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melman wrote :
Pulled from another thread:



For some reason, the word "unfairly" grabbed my eye. I guess this is the first time I've heard anyone describe a guy's decision not to pursue a woman as "unfair".

Personally I think it's more unfair if someone intentionally changes their behavior to hide who they really are. If that's really even possible.

What would be an example of one of these "unintentional signals" that supposedly prevents a guy from "REALLY getting to know the real us" ?
well I have read the book so I will try to answer intelligibly your question.

Largely what she is talking about is the little matter where people take a tiny data point and extrapolate it to reach conclusions that seem logical on the immediate surface but that are actually incorrect about who the person really is.

So it's not so much a book about learning to misrepresent yourself as learning to realize when you are doing something that can be easily misinterpreted as a pattern about you.

I hesitate to give an example bc none of the really good ones are springing to my mind, but there were a few that I thought illuminating in general, and some even that I thought could apply to men as easily.

One example that sticks in my mind ... guy and girl go back to girl's apartment. Guy is having a wonderful evening and really likes said girl. But .... the guy decided not to call this lovely woman back because during this time period of the date, her attention was completely focused on the date and she didn't pay enough attention to nurturing her pet in his presence.

Since he was looking for a future mother to his children, he honed in on that as a sign she wouldn't be a good mother to his children, instead of realizing that the pet didn't actually need any nurturance and that to many other men who weren't on some sort of baby clock it would have have been rude to lavish attention on an animal when you're supposed to be lavishing it on your date.

That was one of two or three tiny data points during the date that her date thought fit a certain pattern of someone who wouldn't be a good mom. Ie not kind enough.

I believe that particular persona was the in Boots or something like that, which is a woman who ranges from appearing lacking in nurturing to downright unkind witch.

This is a condensation of many many words of text in the book, and probably it makes more sense in the book where there is a full explanation. So please don't judge the book solely on what I am writing.

***

I actually do think this book can be helpful to women in understanding how certain things might be perceived as something entirely different than is true about you.
Last edited by eHA_Admin_Lori; July 2,2010 at 2:47pm. Reason: removed masked obscenity
 
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Breezy1 is offline Breezy1 Post #4  June 29,2010, 6:56pm
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nightling wrote :
One example that sticks in my mind ... guy and girl go back to girl's apartment. Guy is having a wonderful evening and really likes said girl. But .... the guy decided not to call this lovely woman back because during this time period of the date, her attention was completely focused on the date and she didn't pay enough attention to nurturing her pet in his presence.
Is this what the book is largely about? Watching what you do in his presence so that he doesn't get the "wrong idea"?

I'd rather just be myself and let the chips fall where they may.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #5  June 29,2010, 7:01pm
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nightling wrote :
Largely what she is talking about is the little matter where people take a tiny data point and extrapolate it to reach conclusions that seem logical on the immediate surface but that are actually incorrect about who the person really is.
I have a hunch that this type of thing happens a lot online when people are just looking at profiles. My guess would be that it happens a little less during in person meetings.

The thing is....this is usually just supposition. When someone doesn't want to see us anymore we usually don't know why. There usually isn't any way of knowing if our date extrapolated based on one small piece of information....or if they we just generally aren't what they are looking for. It might be wishful thinking or a rationalization for people to think their dates are misjudging them based on some insignificant action they took (or didn't take).
 
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VB_Girl is offline VB_Girl Post #6  June 29,2010, 7:33pm
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Breezy1 wrote :
Is this what the book is largely about? Watching what you do in his presence so that he doesn't get the "wrong idea"?

I'd rather just be myself and let the chips fall where they may.
I've only read a little of the book so far, but I think the message is about being self aware and paying attention as to how your actions are perceived by the other party.
 
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nightling is offline nightling Post #7  June 29,2010, 7:37pm
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Breezy1 wrote :
Is this what the book is largely about? Watching what you do in his presence so that he doesn't get the "wrong idea"?

I'd rather just be myself and let the chips fall where they may.
I feel that it is largely geared to the woman who is seeing a pattern of never getting called back by men she thought promising. As they often say here at the board, when you get a consistent result like that and you are the only common denominator, then it's you.

This book helps you figure out what that might be.

I do not see it as "changing" yourself in any fashion. But being aware of how you may come across in a situation to me is more like a social skill.

I mean for example when I was a child I was completely curious about a mustache this woman friend of my mother's had and thought nothing of just asking her outright about what I felt was her very cool mustache.

Boy did my butt get blistered for being my natural curious self and just blurting out my curiosity.

This book helps you see where your natural self might need a little bit of socially conscious training.
 
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nightling is offline nightling Post #8  June 29,2010, 7:40pm
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jayjay wrote :
I have a hunch that this type of thing happens a lot online when people are just looking at profiles. My guess would be that it happens a little less during in person meetings.

The thing is....this is usually just supposition. When someone doesn't want to see us anymore we usually don't know why. There usually isn't any way of knowing if our date extrapolated based on one small piece of information....or if they we just generally aren't what they are looking for. It might be wishful thinking or a rationalization for people to think their dates are misjudging them based on some insignificant action they took (or didn't take).
Well in the case of the woman in question, her job is to call these one-date wonders the women had and find out why the women didn't get a call back. After doing this for like 1000 times she decided she had enough of a pattern available to write a book that would help others sort out what kinds of things might be misjudged on a first date.

I think it is actually very helpful for understanding how you might be appearing to others in a social setting by a diverse range of men. I would recommend it to women to understand better how men might be filtering them. I would recommend it to men as well, to understand where their filtering might be way off kilter, bc I doubt any of these men think they were wrong, even though, yes, in many of the examples in the book, I do think they reached the wrong conclusion.
Last edited by nightling; June 29,2010 at 7:43pm.
 
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Dafearon is offline Dafearon Post #9  June 29,2010, 7:53pm
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In this aspect, I would take that word unfairly as somewhat offensive.

Unfair, when used in this context, is many times used by children who don't get what they want. What is fair, exactly?

Now in another context, the word unfair can be used in the opposite side. I think many guys who are "unfairly" making this decisions, are actually being unfair to themselves, than to the woman. They are not giving themselves a chance to see, but ultimately, it is their decision to make that choice, "fair or not"
 
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lacedwithhope is offline lacedwithhope Post #10  June 29,2010, 8:19pm
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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
I don't know about unfair or not, but I do know that it takes a long time to actually know someone, even a little bit. It isn't about attraction or chemistry - it's about who a person genuinely is...and that is determined by their actions over a period of time.
I agree. I have this theory about the four seasons ... but I won't bore you. I haven't read the book, but I think that whatever someone's reason for not pursuing a relationship, I think it would be stretch to say it's just or not because after all it's their decision.

I remember one relationship where he 'had me at hello' though... It was a fun one!
 
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