How to Deal with Different Expectations About "Ladies First"


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morningsunlight is offline morningsunlight Post #1  June 19,2010, 1:16am
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I spent many years in the US and now back to an Asian country where the custom of ladies first is not the norms. I understand that the practice is getting less common than it used be in the past in the US. I am not saying that men should, either.

Regardless, my personal preference is that I like going out with a man who practices ladies first because it makes me feel he treats me with gentlemanly care.

Now, I have started dating with a local man back home. It appears that he has no idea about this practice. I understand that he is raised in a different culture and that the lack of this practice should not be interpreted that he treats me without gentlemanly care.

As he seems a well-mannered, considerate, and sensitive person and greatly likes me, there might be a chance he could consider about it after we develop a closer relationship in which I might mention my wish in a polite, nice way (Even in that case, I wouldn't expect him to totally change his long-established habit that men go first).

My current problem is that I cannot help feel awkward whenever he goes first. I realize that this is an extremely superficial reason not to be able to fully enjoy dating a new person though.

I would greatly appreciate it if any of you who could relate to the topic could give me some constructive suggestions about how to deal with my feelings of awkwardness and a bit of disappointment.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #2  June 19,2010, 4:05am
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You are living now in a place with certain cultural norms, so pushing pack on your partner is also in discord (if not an affront) to the local culture.

When traveling on business, it is not seen as a good idea to try to "export" US cultural practices (unless you like to be laughed at behind your back.)

As you are finding, gender roles can be a double-edged sword - something you may want to be thinking about before excess enjoyment or criticism of them.

I do consider it fine to negotiate your desires with your partner, or to display elements of your culture. I'd suspect that this will be easiest to deal with by accomodation on your part.
 
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morningsunlight is offline morningsunlight Post #3  June 19,2010, 7:37am
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Thank you for your advice.

I think I have not been able to figure out how to create a graceful position for each of us. Whenever he walks in front of me, goes into the elevator without looking at me, or looks at the menu without trying to share it with me, I feel a little down even though I should not take these personally.

My dating ritual back in the US was that I would wait for the man's move, and if he offers it, I would smile gently and always thank him in words for his kindness.

In the current case, he does not seem to be even aware who's always going first.

I have been wondering if it would be graceful if the lady would do Gentlemen First by saying "please." Although I must say I am more comfortable with Ladies First than Gentlemen First, this might give him a cue to respond gracefully by "thank you." Even better, he might try to reciprocate. But it might disappoint me if he does not do either of them and just accepts it as a matter of course.

An alternative way to go might be that the lady does not try to mind these manners and goes with the first-come-first-serve basis.
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #4  June 19,2010, 7:51am

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don't you get your own menu to look at?
 
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PY_2 is offline PY_2 Post #5  June 19,2010, 8:30am

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morningsunlight wrote :
Thank you for your advice.

I think I have not been able to figure out how to create a graceful position for each of us. Whenever he walks in front of me, goes into the elevator without looking at me, or looks at the menu without trying to share it with me, I feel a little down even though I should not take these personally.

My dating ritual back in the US was that I would wait for the man's move, and if he offers it, I would smile gently and always thank him in words for his kindness.

In the current case, he does not seem to be even aware who's always going first.

I have been wondering if it would be graceful if the lady would do Gentlemen First by saying "please." Although I must say I am more comfortable with Ladies First than Gentlemen First, this might give him a cue to respond gracefully by "thank you." Even better, he might try to reciprocate. But it might disappoint me if he does not do either of them and just accepts it as a matter of course.

An alternative way to go might be that the lady does not try to mind these manners and goes with the first-come-first-serve basis.
I echo what froggie said.

You've referred to your dating experience in the US or what you're used to/learned from, etc and you bring that expectation to where you are now. Unless you let go of that expectation that you now live in a different culture/country, you will be disappointed.

Dating itself is already a tough thing to do sometimes, my suggestion is to not muddy it up further with forcing what you learn in the US onto the new culture you're in right now.

Just don't over analyze....have fun with him..
Last edited by PY_2; June 19,2010 at 8:33am. Reason: daggone cold medicine i didn't see froggie's post.
 
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morningsunlight is offline morningsunlight Post #6  June 19,2010, 8:42am
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scarlet13 wrote :
don't you get your own menu to look at?
The example of the menu was actually a single incident (the other examples are generalizable). At one of the restaurants we went to, the menu was a big wodden board for each table. He held it by himself and asked me if we should order an avocado salad. But I had not had a chance to look at the menu yet. So I asked him if I might see the menu first before deciding. He said sorry and let me see it.
 
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AndieIsMe is online now AndieIsMe — Advice Member-Moderator Post #7  June 19,2010, 8:42am
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The walking in front of you sounds rude more than a "ladies first" issue. Does he open doors for you? Or let it slam in your face when you are in back of him? He may just not have been raised with those kinds of manners. Not sure where you live, but most men I run into (dating or not) do these things for just about any woman. The exception being some of the younger guys (20's). But I do see the trend coming back with the young men in their teens and pre-teens.

Depending on his age, you can't really "teach" him how to do those chivalrous things.
 
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Iconography is offline Iconography Post #8  June 19,2010, 8:51am
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In some non-Anglo cultures, women are expected to follow men--and, for their part, men are expected to lead and not give any sign (including perhaps opening doors) that they are "subservient" to the opposite sex.

It's rude by our standards, but not by theirs (perhaps for them it is rude of women to expect special treatment?). Etiquette is entirely a cultural thing.

I have to agree with Froggy and PY.
 
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PY_2 is offline PY_2 Post #9  June 19,2010, 8:51am

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morningsunlight wrote :
The example of the menu was actually a single incident (the other examples are generalizable). At one of the restaurants we went to, the menu was a big wodden board for each table. He held it by himself and asked me if we should order an avocado salad. But I had not had a chance to look at the menu yet. So I asked him if I might see the menu first before deciding. He said sorry and let me see it.
I still sincerely hope you can let go of your dating experience in the US and learn by trial and error as two people. Trust me, majority of the time you will be better off not following what you've learned here when it comes to dating.

If you feel you are more 'compatible' with your dating expectation in the US, can't you go back to the US and date here instead?

Plus people can call it my hang up or whatever...but be careful with possibly painting non-US men as not kind to women , lack of manner and rude...
Last edited by PY_2; June 19,2010 at 8:53am.
 
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PY_2 is offline PY_2 Post #10  June 19,2010, 9:01am

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Iconography wrote :
In some non-Anglo cultures, women are expected to follow men--and, for their part, men are expected to lead and not give any sign (including perhaps opening doors) that they are "subservient" to the opposite sex.

It's rude by our standards, but not by theirs (perhaps for them it is rude of women to expect special treatment?). Etiquette is entirely a cultural thing.

I have to agree with Froggy and PY.
I'm sorry Icono...I'm from one of the non-anglo cultures...and I did not grow up in this kind of culture....and especially the idea that opening doors are equal to being 'subservient' to women.

I grew up opening doors to people and that was because I was told it was polite.

Sorry....cultural misconception/assumption is one of my biggest pet peeve (not to you..but in general).
 
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