Does a women's independence hinder her dating success?


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eHA_Admin_Lori is offline eHA_Admin_LoriAdvice Official Moderator Post #1  June 5,2010, 10:46am
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The author of this article seems to think so:

I can be independent and vulnerable - CNN.com

What say you?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #2  June 5,2010, 10:49am
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Don't forget to ask "what is the measure of success?"

One good, suitable partner, who wants what she wants, for instance.

Independance does not hinder this.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #3  June 5,2010, 11:22am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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The thing with 'independence' is, if a person is living on their own you know they are independent in a physical sense. I think this is why (as the article addresses) such statements are really meant to reflect something about the person in a psychological sense.

You generally don't see men bragging about their 'independence'....so I ask myself why women do so? One possible reason I come up with is that they value independence in men, so they figure men must value it in women as well (which may or may not be the case). Another possible reason I can think of is that the women are, in fact, trying to communicate something about their personality.

I think many people today (both men and women) are very self centered and don't have much interest in compromise or sacrificing for another person. They want to be left to do their own thing and just hope to find someone that they magically mesh with, so as to not have to make some type of sacrifice to make a relationship work. I think men generally don't feel the need to make a specific statement to convey the fact that this is the kind of person they are..... while perhaps women feel they need to make an explicit statement to this effect.

Also, the article talks about vulnerability. In fact, I think being vulnerable is part of the human condition. However, many people don't want the hit to their ego that showing this vulnerability would involve.
 
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Sassafras54 is online now Sassafras54Advice Official Moderator Post #4  June 5,2010, 11:24am
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Her main point seems to be that men want to feel needed. If a woman doesn't need a man for the traditional stuff (money, changing the oil, mowing the lawn) how can she still need him? The author's answer is little things like letting him pull out her chair.

The thing a man can provide that I can't cover for myself, is being a man: they're different from me! Male energy, sexuality, male thinking and feeling. I think making it clear to a man that I want and appreciate his maleness should cover it.

Pulling out my chair? I don't care.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #5  June 5,2010, 11:41am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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Sassafras54 wrote :
Her main point seems to be that men want to feel needed. If a woman doesn't need a man for the traditional stuff (money, changing the oil, mowing the lawn) how can she still need him? The author's answer is little things like letting him pull out her chair.

The thing a man can provide that I can't cover for myself, is being a man: they're different from me! Male energy, sexuality, male thinking and feeling. I think making it clear to a man that I want and appreciate his maleness should cover it.

Pulling out my chair? I don't care.
Right. If someone can dress, bathe and feed themselves then they don't 'need' another person in the physical sense. The 'need' is on an emotional level. Many women do not want to 'need' or depend on a man in an emotional sense.
 
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trixie1868 is offline trixie1868 Post #6  June 5,2010, 2:46pm

what the bejeezus is going on round here?!

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Hmmmmmm.

If you're single and an adult, you are by definition independent ~ who you got to 'depend' on?

For me 'independent' means "I've got my act together" and I have and I want to be in a relationship with someone else who has also got their act together but I fully appreciate that might not be how other people interpret it. I don't use it really, on one of my profiles I think I've written something like "I've got my life 'cake' baked and I'm looking for someone to help put relationship 'frosting' on it" and men seem to get that and respond to it in the same vein.

I'm not keen on Audrey Irvine's slant, she seems to confuse 'independence' with a lack of social grace. I would consider it very sweet if a man tried to move me over so I wasn't walking near the curb and I'd know that he was manoeuvering for that reason. I like all that old school genteel stuff, I don't need it, but because I don't need it, I can quite enjoy it.

Being 'independent' doesn't have to mean that people aren't allowed to do nice things for you.
Last edited by trixie1868; June 5,2010 at 3:13pm.
 
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nightling is offline nightling Post #7  June 5,2010, 2:54pm
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jayjay wrote :
The thing with 'independence' is, if a person is living on their own you know they are independent in a physical sense. I think this is why (as the article addresses) such statements are really meant to reflect something about the person in a psychological sense.

You generally don't see men bragging about their 'independence'....so I ask myself why women do so? One possible reason I come up with is that they value independence in men, so they figure men must value it in women as well (which may or may not be the case). Another possible reason I can think of is that the women are, in fact, trying to communicate something about their personality.

I think many people today (both men and women) are very self centered and don't have much interest in compromise or sacrificing for another person. They want to be left to do their own thing and just hope to find someone that they magically mesh with, so as to not have to make some type of sacrifice to make a relationship work. I think men generally don't feel the need to make a specific statement to convey the fact that this is the kind of person they are..... while perhaps women feel they need to make an explicit statement to this effect.

Also, the article talks about vulnerability. In fact, I think being vulnerable is part of the human condition. However, many people don't want the hit to their ego that showing this vulnerability would involve.
When I was growing up I don't know how many times I got told I couldn't do something bc I was a girl. Girls don't play with cars they play with dolls. Chess is a boy's game. The basketball clinic is for boys. We will only let you be an indian in Cowboys and Indians because you are a girl and girls shouldn't play that game. blah blah blah.

Nothing infuriated me more growing up than to be told I was a girl as if that explained some magical limit on why I couldn't do an otherwise perfectly reasonable activity. And nothing was more guaranteed to ensure that I would do exactly the opposite than saying girls can't do that. My mother actually had to go to the school to tell them I could play with the cars for Pete's sake!

My first job was the token female at an environmental firm. I had a degree in chemistry. My job? Get the boss some coffee sweetie.

So I feel the statement is really more a reaction to being treated as if your capabilities are somehow inferior and that you somehow can't make it in the world on your own simply because you are a girl.

These days society has gotten much better. I am hardly ever slapped in the face with my girlness. I'm accepted at the table as an equal. It can be easy however, if you have been treated this way, to develop negative attitudes. And they never help you, plus you usually just end up penalizing the wrong people.

I like it when guys open the door for me and "protect" me from the big bad cars on the street.

But that's just my 2 fwiw.
Last edited by nightling; June 5,2010 at 3:00pm.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #8  June 5,2010, 2:59pm
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jayjay wrote :
The thing with 'independence' is, if a person is living on their own you know they are independent in a physical sense. I think this is why (as the article addresses) such statements are really meant to reflect something about the person in a psychological sense.

You generally don't see men bragging about their 'independence'....so I ask myself why women do so? One possible reason I come up with is that they value independence in men, so they figure men must value it in women as well (which may or may not be the case). Another possible reason I can think of is that the women are, in fact, trying to communicate something about their personality.

I think many people today (both men and women) are very self centered and don't have much interest in compromise or sacrificing for another person. They want to be left to do their own thing and just hope to find someone that they magically mesh with, so as to not have to make some type of sacrifice to make a relationship work. I think men generally don't feel the need to make a specific statement to convey the fact that this is the kind of person they are..... while perhaps women feel they need to make an explicit statement to this effect.

Also, the article talks about vulnerability. In fact, I think being vulnerable is part of the human condition. However, many people don't want the hit to their ego that showing this vulnerability would involve.
I agree with this completely.

Professing independence strongly is so prevalent. It does make me need to find out if it would be her way or misery would ensue.

I actually don't want to live along side of a woman. I want to live with her in every sense.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #9  June 5,2010, 3:02pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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nightling wrote :
So I feel the statement is really more a reaction to being treated as if your capabilities are somehow inferior and that you somehow can't make it in the world on your own simply because you are a girl.
So.... it's like a form of baggage? Women have been treated like caap for so long and they're still reacting to that? As others have written, when it comes to the physical aspect of earning your own living and taking care of yourself that just seems to go without saying that you can do so.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #10  June 5,2010, 3:08pm
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I think that some people are condescending toward women even today. Some probably don't even know that they are doing it.
 
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