*Not* another who should pay thread


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gothustartus is offline gothustartus Post #1  April 16,2010, 10:51pm
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Every time the “Who should pay” argument comes up things always seem to get a bit heated, guys mention feeling stiffed and things rapidly get very defensive on both sides of the fence… “Women shouldn’t have to A, B, C, men should X, Y, Z.”, “Yeah? Well men shouldn’t have to X,Y,Z, women should A, B, C.”
Sometimes it’s tempting to mention Hitler and the Nazis just to kill the thread.
Sure there are a lot of guys who feel that paying for a date means being owed something, not necessarily sex but some sort of obligation to get somewhere, to receive value for the money spent or at least recognition that they spent it, otherwise it feels wasted. Sometimes they have a point, there is huge pressure on men to pay and through the nose at that, or appear cheap. It’s all very well to say “Hey, if you can’t afford expensive dates then go on fewer or cheaper ones” but let’s be honest, if you date two guys and one takes you to the Savoy and the other to Burger King, burger Barry will be damn lucky to get a phone call let alone a second date, so the onus is on him to spend more than he can maybe afford. It’s amazing how quickly dating can get to feel like a bottomless pit for your cash.
The trouble is if you spend more than you should trying to impress and it doesn’t work then it’s way too easy to sound like you have massive feelings of thwarted entitlement when you complain about being a free meal Santa, and that’s guaranteed to get an argument going here.
Not every guy is bothered about it though, some wouldn’t hear of the woman paying, some like showing off a wallet so heavy you could use it to beat whales to death with, some just figure everything evens out sooner or later so why stress? Build up your karma and wait for the cosmic slot machine to hit the jackpot.
My brother was constantly running out of money paying for dates, the one time he dated a woman who was more than happy to pay her way his machismo couldn’t handle it and he dumped her for a woman who’d spend the rent on a new dress.
My own take on it is that when i'm paying for a date i'm paying for the evening not the person, if it leads on from there then great, but if it doesn’t go anywhere then that’s ok too, i got what i paid for, a nice night out with someone who was hopefully fun to socialise with.
So for me these threads are never really about who should or shouldn’t pay, they’re more about what people think is being paid for.
 
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Dropdeadredtx is offline Dropdeadredtx Post #2  April 17,2010, 10:54am
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'Not every guy is bothered about it though, some wouldn’t hear of the woman paying'

Great insights into this touchy issue. The struggle I face as a 49 yr. old female primarily dating men in their 50's is this; I can offer to pay, I can pull out my card or my cash, but unless I can surreptitiously grab the check while my date is in the restroom, it's not going to work. My dates insist on paying, to the point of taking my card out of the check folder and replacing it with theirs. Is it a generational thing, do you think? Or cultural - I do live in Texas, after all.
 
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ForwardUntoDawn is online now ForwardUntoDawn Post #3  April 17,2010, 11:18am
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I think to much is maid of who pays what, it is the way it is because of our culture, so when in Rome do as Romans do. I get annoyed with guys who go all out and then when they do not get a phone call cry about it. If they wanted something in return for there money call a escort; not all women are gold diggers or impressed by the size of your wallet.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #4  April 17,2010, 11:40am
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Dropdeadredtx wrote :
I can offer to pay, I can pull out my card or my cash, but unless I can surreptitiously grab the check while my date is in the restroom, it's not going to work. My dates insist on paying, to the point of taking my card out of the check folder and replacing it with theirs. Is it a generational thing, do you think? Or cultural - I do live in Texas, after all.

Or, they expect they are being tested, and expect to be dumped if they don't pay. I'm more sad than frustrated, at this point, which i think is the common reason.

Another possibility is control: I am inherently controlling, and know that money is power. I find that a ... shall we say, adversary ... is often great fun, and frees me from having to control everything (if I wanted that, I could have stayed at work.)
 
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Wootz is offline Wootz Post #5  April 17,2010, 11:49am
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gothustartus wrote :
My own take on it is that when i'm paying for a date i'm paying for the evening not the person, if it leads on from there then great, but if it doesn’t go anywhere then that’s ok too, i got what i paid for, a nice night out with someone who was hopefully fun to socialise with.

So for me these threads are never really about who should or shouldn’t pay, they’re more about what people think is being paid for.
Makes sense to me. The food, the concert, the fair, wherever you go- there are costs associated. One should not put a price tag on good conversation with an interesting partner, a smile, or a kiss- this smacks of a quid-pro-quo transaction of the oldest profession. But I'm an odd sort in this, if reading these boards is any indication. *grin*

I do not normally "go all out" until I've gotten to know the person well. That's what I view the first few "dates" as- an opportunity to learn more about a lady I am interested in- and to have fun along the way. I'll pay what I can afford for the evening, and if I can't I won't hide that fact. A lass who does not respect this is not for me. I will be upfront and honest about who I am, and I expect the same from a prospective partner.

Much is made of the money issue these days. It is important, I will grant you. Many couples I know have fought about, and continue to fight about money. Having enough to pay the bills and live reasonably comfortable is enough for me- I have practice in deferring my desires. *grin* But there are so many more important things to me than this issue. That's why I normally stay out of the "who should pay" threads.

A woman who has the qualities I seek- patience, tolerance, kindness, intellect, and prudence (and so on, as I am highly picky *grin*)- she will be the kind of lass to work with me on budgetary issues, as I will do the same for her. One who views me as "cheap" because I prefer dates where we can enjoy the sunshine in Spring, who packs a picnic lunch sometimes rather than spending money on a restaurant, or any of my other pecuniary quirks and foibles, this lass will not be the one for me. Best to get that sorted early on, methinks. *grin*
Last edited by Wootz; April 17,2010 at 11:50am. Reason: Honesty is the best policy, lads. Those who appreciate it are the ones that will stick by you in the long run, in my experience...
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #6  April 17,2010, 12:13pm

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Having grown up without tons of money, I don't place a whole lot of emphasis on how much is spent on a date. I would honestly rather go for a walk and have a good conversation for free than be bored to tears at the nicest restaurant in town.

I have no problems paying for dates and paid for most of them in my last relationship. It wasn't an issue. It's only money. I didn't expect some major pay-off for footing the bill either. I had the money, he didn't. No big deal. When things were still good, I just enjoyed the time spent with him - no matter who paid.

Looking back on that relationship though, I am beginning to realize that the things he did pay for or buy came with a price tag attached. He took back everything he bought me when we broke up. They were not so much gifts as insurance that I would stick around. Unfortunately for him, or maybe fortunately since he's probably got all his money back now, I don't really care about stuff. It didn't break my heart to give it all back and I don't miss it. My emotional health and sanity mean more to me than that.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #7  April 17,2010, 12:26pm
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Really it shouldn't be the issue it is...and it hasn't been for me in anything approaching recent years.

It's about knowing who you are, your intent, and presenting that authentically, with the knowledge that it may or may not pan out, but that there is no way it will pan out if you do otherwise.

The guy who takes me on an inexpensive date, but charms me with conversation and authenticity will get a call back long before the guy who takes me to an expensive restaurant, insists on paying, but spends the entire evening regaling me with stories of his hot exes (or his heinous exes) or his expensive toys - or the guy who discusses vacations together on the first date (complete with inappropriate sexual innuendo). Conversely, I will respect a man who tells me that he is only interested in a casual sexual relationship (even if I'm not in the market) over one who pretends to want a full-blown relationship as a way to charm me into bed.

Most of us go into these things with a hope that they will blossom into something more. But the heart is a tricky thing. It wants what it wants. Sometimes it can be redirected, with time and attention and diligence, and sometimes not.

I think the issue of paying (or people misrepresenting themselves or any of the other myriad hot-button topics we see) come down, at their root, to disappointment. It's easier to direct that disappointment at the other person than look deeply into ourselves and see what it is that we are lacking. It's easier to develop attachment to the idea of a relationship than it is to take the time and make the effort to actually get to know another person.

Any of you good eHA men who ever happen to end up in my geographic orbit are hereby treated to shrimp and beer at my favorite hole-in-the-wall.

And I hope every one of you find a woman worthy of you.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #8  April 17,2010, 12:28pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Or, they expect they are being tested, and expect to be dumped if they don't pay. I'm more sad than frustrated, at this point, which i think is the common reason.

Another possibility is control: I am inherently controlling, and know that money is power. I find that a ... shall we say, adversary ... is often great fun, and frees me from having to control everything (if I wanted that, I could have stayed at work.)
You should report for a spanking post-haste.
Last edited by littlebluemonkeymind; April 17,2010 at 12:31pm.
 
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phoenix888 is offline phoenix888 Post #9  April 17,2010, 12:33pm
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I have had long term relationships which were completely dutch, and then I have had dates who were offended if I offered to pay. It makes for a very tricky road for 40+ aged women to walk!!!

I have on occasion hijacked the bill by secretly convincing the waiter/waitress in advance to just approach me stealthily so I could hand off my debit card when the check arrived. Otherwise... have you ever noticed, guys??? The check usually winds up on the GUY'S side of the table. At least... in my neck of the woods.
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #10  April 17,2010, 12:36pm
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You're awesome and that was a great post. The only thing that I disagree with is this:

gothustartus wrote :
but let’s be honest, if you date two guys and one takes you to the Savoy and the other to Burger King, burger Barry will be damn lucky to get a phone call let alone a second date, so the onus is on him to spend more than he can maybe afford.
I loathe pretense. I like having nice things and I do have nice things, but there is nothing worse than someone that tries to look like something they aren't by spending money.

If you have money, great, but there had better be something else that makes me think you are a down to earth type person or it's a huge, huge turnoff to me.

Anyway, I would not be more likely to go out with a guy that spent more money again. I would go out with the one that I had the best connection with
 
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