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jayjay ....is feeling optimistic.

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chawks64 wrote :
For me at least, I doubt moving to Vegas is considered a step up.
LOL
- November 3rd, 2009, 07:42 pm
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jayjay ....is feeling optimistic.

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alissag wrote :
No credit cause I'm still here (can't move because of custody)... At least no one expects too much from me!!! The bar is set exceptionally low! Ha ha ha ha ha
Or, from what I've heard maybe just a different bar. I had a friend from San Diego who told me he had to have < 10% body fat just to have an average build for a man there.
- November 3rd, 2009, 07:43 pm
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alissag Life's not about weathering the storm but learning to dance in the rain!

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D_Lion wrote :
I’ll admit that in real life when I actually got with a partner where I ended up paying most of the time she did indeed prove to be “traditional,” with the female performing the burdens of the traditional female role (cleaning and cooking in my house, with no asking on my part.)

Interestingly, these women had parents with the same idea: when I was in parents’ house, I ended up speaking with her father while she stayed with her mother (weird, but consistent.) There was a clear male hierarchy.

***

This is a big issue, though: these women were very attuned to pleasing me (“is everything okay? Can I get you anything?”), and were not at all demanding (“Buy me that. Take me there.”)

Problems were: I still don’t get the 1950 style man / woman labor market outcome, so I can’t deal whether I want her or not; and these women were as boring as watching paint dry. I want the intellectual stimulation from my dating partners – it’s a big part of what I seek.

***

I consider it a major distinction between a true traditional woman (subservient, supportive) and a greedy rent-seeker (demanding, whining, expecting), even though they may appear similar initially.

I am also naturally controlling, and I find myself being controlling with women. I don’t particularly like it, and independent, self-sufficient women help balance that attribute.
In terms of traditional upbringing, I meant it in terms of a woman having an appreciation and manners. The whole "she never says thanks thread"

Like I said before, it's a VERY fine line, a man that is masculine without the dominant/controlling factor. Vice versa for a woman, supportive and giving without completely giving up herself or being a doormat.
- November 3rd, 2009, 08:21 pm
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alissag Life's not about weathering the storm but learning to dance in the rain!

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jayjay wrote :
Or, from what I've heard maybe just a different bar. I had a friend from San Diego who told me he had to have < 10% body fat just to have an average build for a man there.
Men with < 10% body fat are few and far between. Besides, I would never expect more from I man than what I expect of myself.
- November 3rd, 2009, 08:22 pm
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librarybabe wrote :
Oh come on Frog. I don't know how long you have been doing online dating, but I think it has been too long. Sounds like it is time to quit. Quit with me (or Trixie if you prefer. She's cooler than me ). Online dating makes me think men only want women who are more attractive, thinner, more sophisticated and dumber and most importantly youngerthan I. But I refuse to believe either of our perceptions are true about the real world.
Nah, D_Lion is correct. All the women I seem to have been able to date of late a quite a bit younger, earn/own more, smarter and I kinda feel more attractive. I should be ashamed of myself.
- November 4th, 2009, 02:54 am
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As far as men with money go: I don't think it's odd to not be focused on that issue. But then again, my friends say I'm drawn to penniless losers with bad boy smiles like a moth to a candle. And I did marry into quite a bit of money once and hated almost everything about it. Nope - give me a guy with a smile and an old leather jacket and I don't care if we eat at the SalVa food bank.
- November 4th, 2009, 06:22 am
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D_Lion wrote :
.

I am frustrated to keep seeing women's profiles demanding his income be higher than hers.

(Combined with affirmative action and the customary demand that he subsidize her dating, this is infuriating.)

Good observation, noting the hypocrisy there.
- November 4th, 2009, 07:01 am
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Annnnne wrote :
So I am in my late 20s and have really enjoyed the type of people I have been meeting so for on eH (granted there are a lot of duds to weed out). Most of the men I have met with are in the 33-38 age range, which is in line with the ages of most of my friends.

I'm trying to talk one of my girlfriends who is 38 into signing up. She is in great shape, sucessful, smart, funny, educated, etc, etc. Overall, she is mature but does not look or act her age (she could pass for 31-32ish easily).

Last night one of the men we were out with who has also enjoyed being on eH was telling her to sign up but say she was 5 years younger than she really is. He is a doctor and in his mid 40s if that matters.

She wants to date more, but wont sign up for eH because she doesnt want to lie about her age and her friends who are 38-40, but also are like her in that they look and act younger have had little luck on eH. She says that men discount women in her age range even if there are great pictures and a good profile.

What should I tell her? Ladies would you lie about your age? Men, what would you do if you met a beautiful, smart, funny, established woman and found out later that she took 5 years off of her age on her profile? Also, men who are in their late 30s early 40s, would you pass over someone who was 38 if you still wanted to have kids?
The kids factor is the important one. If a man is looking to meet someone to have kids, then age is important in his decision. If the woman does not want kids and is clear about it, then age is irrevelevant. If a woman looks 32, then she is.
- November 5th, 2009, 12:33 am
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D_Lion wrote :
Using online dating as a man, you come away with the conclusion women want money more than anything, they want much older men (with money), they do not consider men making less money than they do, they do not consider men with less-prestigious occupational titles or lesser educational attainment (for bachelor’s degreed women; post-graduates are more willing to consider BS-only men), and they demand he be of greater height (often stated as her height “in heels.”)
------------

I am frustrated to keep seeing women's profiles demanding his income be higher than hers.

(Combined with affirmative action and the customary demand that he subsidize her dating, this is infuriating.)
I'll throw in more of my data, to further ruin your assumptions.

I already explained above why I open my matching to men 15 years older (actually, 17 for good measure). On the bottom range I specify 15 years younger, but I have never gotten a communication request here, or on Match, from anyone more than 7 years younger.

When I was on Match, I didn't specify a height, profession, degree or income requirement. (I also don't set those as priorities on eHarmony.) That prompted one man to tell me that not only did I seem like a scammer because he thought I was not posting true pictures of myself (he thought they were of a much younger woman), but that I was looking for any man, ANY man because I had no standards, and thus could not have the background I described. What I explained was that I look at the total person and there was little in the way of objective stats I would rule out without knowing someone.

I am 5'7", slender, fit looking, well dressed, have nice head of hair and all my teeth, am told I am anything from pretty to drop dead gorgeous, have an advanced degree, am articulate and sophisticated and well traveled and self-made, and in addition to what I think are interesting hobbies, am loving and devoted to family and friends. I do not have a string of divorces or 8 children needing support. Am I perfect? No. Am I great? I think so. Since I was 25 I have had serious relationships with men who ranged from 5'4 to 6'10"; were skinny to overweight; had educations ranging from advanced degrees to high school diplomas only; were from never married to twice divorced with kids; and were from 3 years younger to 18 years older. I also dated a paraplegic, which shouldn't be a big deal but most people know wouldn't. What they all had in common was that they were smart and interesting and dynamic. Historically I am a very, very high earner and three of my last four boyfriends made less than I did. The first man I lived with made a third what I did, and I paid two thirds of the rent and split our other bills up the line. I have been taking a sabbatical from my primary career to help see a family member through a medical crisis at the cost of a significant income drop, but even so I have offered to pay half or more of the tab on every date I have been on this year even though they all have been with men whose incomes are higher, even when the date was at their invitation and locale was their choice. (Ironically, despite my income history and future potential, based upon what I have read on other threads and here about men's income requirements, some might decide that for now I don't make enough to suit them.) When they haven't let me pay, I do the inviting on the next date and take care of the bill (or at least try to).

I haven't made my choices of men or adopted these behaviors because I am desperate. I do what I do because I think it is right and decent and it is genuinely who I am. There are women with values. None of my grandparents had careers commensurate with their intelligence and skills, and my grandfather in particular had to drop out of college during the Depression and worked a menial job the rest of his life. I was raised to see people as more than a wallet or a job or a list on a piece of paper. I have had relatives with disabilities, and I similarly know how much more they are than a body. What I expect from a man no matter what his stats is honesty, kindness, attentiveness and the display of sufficient interest, thoughtfulness and manners that he ask well in advance for a date, take the initiative to call and/or email (I always respond promptly), hold my door and not order his food before I finish reading the menu, and the other things I hope are not too much to expect in this cynical era of dating.

I don't think I am alone in my ways (I know lots of similarly minded women), so I wonder when gathering data whether some people's attentions are drawn only to those people and profiles that fit their pre-existing negative expectations of what women (or men) are like. Or maybe women like me don't count as date-worthy because there are things about us that don't fit other things you are looking for, even though we defy your negative expectations (no matter the age we are the wrong racial/ethnic background, have non-life threatening medical issues, are too "independent" or "high achieving" -- especially for those who admit they tend to dominate women, don't have long blond hair, can't ski, or who knows what else you want; I also read on another thread that most people wouldn't date someone who lived with family, without bothering to find out why. Ridiculous, I think). In other words, maybe the problem is that some men only notice and are attracted to shallow, money-hungry women.
- November 5th, 2009, 06:48 pm
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