Dating a virgin ~ the holy grail of dating or a burdonsome responsibility? Discuss.


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PR_Princess is offline PR_Princess Post #81  November 2,2009, 5:03pm
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neardc wrote :
If this is true, then why is it that in some parts of the world it is men who demand it, and women who are killed when they no longer have it? (Actually, that even happens here...)
Same type of men who used to go witch hunting way back when...they need to create an "enemy" outside themselves to maintain their power, purge themselves of their "unhealthy" thoughts/desires, and make themselves the "stronger" sex...one way or another. They are an enemy to good men/women alike.
 
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trixie1868 is offline trixie1868 Post #82  November 2,2009, 5:03pm

what the bejeezus is going on round here?!

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Is no one going to champion the promiscuous?

I would've thought there's a lot to be said for dating someone who has had a lot of sex with different people and is looking to settle down.

In fact I'll go as far to say I'm always dumb founded by Islam promising 42 virgins in heaven. Too many to get along nicely and too few for one a week for your first year. Surely a couple of professional hookers and a cuddly one who can cook would be better? No?
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #83  November 2,2009, 5:07pm
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Benevolence32 wrote :
I'll agree with this mostly, my original point was that there are men that see it differently...so a woman that does value her virginity (face it, they're out there, religion aside) would want to be leary of these men.

You're sort of contradicting yourself in a way though...if a woman wants a guy with experience how is that any different than a guy pursuing a woman with no experience? Isn't both trains of thought in essence fetishizing and not seeing a person as an individual? I'm just picking your brain here btw.
Well, I'm at a point in life where I'm (obviously) experienced and I prefer that anyone I'm with be experienced. I think the trouble comes in when we start holding others to different standards than those to which we hold ourselves. If a woman was 18 with limited experience and only wanted to date 50 year olds with tons of experience...I would see that as a red flag. If a man is 50 with tons of experience and still considers an 18-year-old virgin (good luck finding one) fair game, that's a red flag. Assigning an undue value to something that has no intrinsic value (i.e. virgins are better because they are pure, men with big _____s are better lovers, or even more partners=greater sexual experience, etc.) is, to me, a poor reflection on a person's values and priorities.

Did I make things clearer or just muddy the waters more?
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #84  November 2,2009, 5:12pm
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trixie1868 wrote :
Is no one going to champion the promiscuous?

I would've thought there's a lot to be said for dating someone who has had a lot of sex with different people and is looking to settle down.

In fact I'll go as far to say I'm always dumb founded by Islam promising 42 virgins in heaven. Too many to get along nicely and too few for one a week for your first year. Surely a couple of professional hookers and a cuddly one who can cook would be better? No?
LOL. Troublemaker. I knew there was a reason I liked you.
 
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trixie1868 is offline trixie1868 Post #85  November 2,2009, 5:14pm

what the bejeezus is going on round here?!

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littlebluemonkeymind wrote :
LOL. Troublemaker. I knew there was a reason I liked you.

Moi?
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #86  November 2,2009, 5:20pm
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trixie1868 wrote :
Is no one going to champion the promiscuous?

[snipped]
I think this is a case of "actions speak louder than words."
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #87  November 2,2009, 5:24pm
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Fleuellen wrote :
it is stupid, but why? what would be the imagine advantage?
what's an imagine advantage?
 
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Faira is offline Faira Post #88  November 2,2009, 5:30pm
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trixie1868 wrote :
Is no one going to champion the promiscuous?
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #89  November 2,2009, 5:31pm
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neardc wrote :
If this is true, then why is it that in some parts of the world it is men who demand it, and women who are killed when they no longer have it? (Actually, that even happens here...)
Good catch!. Historically? This one is because of the patriarchy!

Huh? Isn't that directly against what I was saying earlier?

Sort of. These things are connected. "Patriarchy" refers primarily to familial lineage being determined by the male family line. In the majority of societies (European, most Asian countries, etc.) the continuation of the family line was determined entirely by male descendants as women became part of the family they were married into.

Thus it was very important to a family to have heirs from a male child, socially and economically. Lack of birth control meant that a non-virgin woman could possibly be pregnant from another man and thus be unable to continue the line from that child. Virginity (and also the stigma against female adultery) was thus valued as a method to insure any children were assuredly able to continue the bloodline.

Since such things are much less important in American society today (at least comparatively speaking) virginity is likewise devalued, especially among men (who stand to gain from women being more likely to engage in sexual activity).

This behavior did, however, also serve as protection for women. The value of having an heir from a specific woman and maintaining that bond helped insure her both a living place and a mate who would provide for their children. Was it a perfect system? Heck no.

The world was very different. Women didn't have education and most occupations required physical instead of mental skills. They simply could not have survived without a man to support them. I'm glad this is changing but that was the reality of the times. Thus the value on virginity, and the continuation of the bloodline, gave women security (to an extent and at the cost of personal liberty). Considering the potential for violence against women throughout history any sort of protection was considered better to, well, death.

So perhaps I should have, at the risk of making my posts even longer, have added that the origin of the value of virginity has roots in both male and female interests. I was more interested in the counterpoint so I left that part out.

The real feminism changes are still ongoing and the world isn't accepting the good changes with open arms. So of course you see the same negative behavior throughout the world because the attitudes and mentality is the same.

Sometimes it's hard to remember that just because I don't believe it that doesn't mean that other guys don't. Gotta avoid defending the people I don't agree with while trying to defend myself, I guess. Categories can be so inconvenient!

Jacquesne
 
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Lostintranslation is offline Lostintranslation Post #90  November 2,2009, 5:34pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Because it is neither here nor there.

It is definitely not here. It ain't coming back. It ain't growing back. It isn't miraculously revisiting me. No aliens have arrived for a re-install. I think all concepts of mysterious replenishment are strange conceits.

That said: I think it is important to remember that the Holy Grail was never found - many have argued it is a state of mind, others have said that the Grail was a person. So, like the Grail argument, the virginity argument can never really be 'solved'.

Certainly, though, to my mind even the concept of 'losing' one's virginity is rather silly. I know exactly where mine went - I didn't lose it, I didn't squander it, I didn't give it in some important ceremony nor did I give it to a person of any importance. Mine was gone at night at a young age in an impetuous, inartful, fumbling debacle. I do not regret it nor do I overanalyze the decision at an age where all my decisions were that of youth and bravado. To avoid the crudity of an anatomy lesson, it is to me something that is there in adolescence and is gone at some point after first intercourse.

Sex is what you make it - love it what you make it - and who you chose to make it with. Sexual relationships are hard enough without having to worry over labels and admissions and non-admissions. Be who you are and enjoy and savor the moments you have to be in such intimate contact with another person. Anything else is just noisy distraction.
Last edited by Lostintranslation; November 2,2009 at 5:37pm. Reason: I made a typoo.
 
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