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AsianGal made yummy chicken soup with dumplings!

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Reading all these posts I can't help but feel most of the people posting here have a somewhat casual attitude towards sex.

Either they see sex as just 'sex' by placing sole value on it, thus basing their values of relationships on sex which is the largest mitigating factor, or they just can't be half arsed to view sex as anything but just a ritual of pleasuring one's self along with another partner - empty and meaningless.

I'm a 23 years old woman and yes I'm a virgin. I've been engaged to my fiance since we were in high school but didn't want to go shotgun marriage because there's nothing worse than teenage idiots getting hitched for the sake of it.
Coincidentally we have quite a number more factors we have to consider than the average person in a relationship as we hail from different countries (we met while studying overseas), come from different cultural backgrounds and races, and worse, religions.

So you can see most people wouldn't have really bothered because it takes 'work'.
However, for my fiance, the moment he set eyes on me he said he knew he wanted me to be with him for the rest of his life.
He told me after we had known each other for about 3 months as friends that he didn't want to date me because it would be disrespectful to me (for some in our cultures, though this is probably 90% gone now due to westernisation/modernisation of our generations, dating is a very loose, casual way for people to experiment and he felt I was worth more than just an 'experiment'), he asked me to marry him.
I was stunned, because we were just teens. I mean I wanted to get through university (we both entered university at 17 because of our grades) and then get a career AND a life of independence before thinking of getting a husband!
I told him to give me time to think about it. Even though at that point we had become very close friends, the thought crossed my mind that he might be a slimy dirtbag who wanted to get into my pants by telling me he wanted to marry me and then pressurise me into sleeping with him using the 'we're going to get married anyway' card.
Story cut short, during the time I considered we remained friends and I finally said 'yes'.
We decided to get engaged and agreed that marrying at a young age might only serve to jepordise our futures - kids need a stable environment and if you're going to marry early have 'have a kid' by accident you can forget about your education and career.
Another long story cut short, my family was outraged as we come from an upper-class family and there are certain unspoken 'rules' you follow (which I completely disagree with. Its just that my family is very. Um. Conservative and last generation while my siblings and I were raised very modern) - that is, no dark people, no other religions except mine and the common Asian religion our race has, no poor people, no lower-class people, basically no choice except that which is approved by the family.
He faced the same thing. He comes from an upper-middle class family back in his home country and they weren't too happy I wasn't of his religion (they are very strict) and that I wasn't even the same race.
We fought for many years. I left my family and he did his - we still keep in close touch with them - as that was the only way to be together.
We left our wealth to fight in the real way and pay our way through everything - rent, bills, education, etc.
You might not blink an eye at this as it is normal in western countries to kick your kids out when they are teens or 20's to be independent but it is normal in Asian cultures to have your kids under your roof until they are married. So for us going independent was very scary, hard but we were so happy.
We moved and lived in 2 Asian countries (one being mine) and then moved to where we met overseas (Western country) to live.

This entire time we have vowed to keep ourselves for one another and aside from the peck/smooch on the cheek and lips we have no done anything sexual with one another.
He doesn't ever pressurise me nor I do him and he told me he is virgin too.
We're due to be married next year.

Of course, we're excited that we get to enjoy one another during our honeymoon.
My friends have told me that perhaps he's lying about being a virgin and he's happy to have a 'pure and wholesome good girl' type but he wouldn't have waited and fought together with me on both our families and cultures (in my country we were stared at and even harassed for me being with him, while those of the same races can make out by escalators no problem. So hypocritical!).
Plus not to mention my sister had jokingly told me that I would know if he's a virgin because all virgins have no idea what to do in the bedroom during their first time.

I find that really beautiful that we will be exploring one another for the first time in love and marriage.

We fought really hard and to me it really is worth waiting for the right person. Not only is he/she worth fighting for (look at how much we have gone through to get to where we are, on our own, through opposing families, cultures, racial and even religious barriers!) you appreciate the person so much more.
There is a kind of unfathomable trust we both have in one another which I find many couples do not have because they see their relationship in such a sterile, non-compromising (aka two separate individuals not two souls in one body) manner which is why there can be no compromise.

I believe men and women should ask themselves what is more worth it.
A woman/man who has strong principles and values who will stick by you through thick and thin or a woman who 'ticks all the boxes' in your superficial list of must-haves (i.e. must have a straight 90 degree angled nose, no more than size 14, good rack, puts out, doesn't play hard to get) - any woman can have these and pretend play the rest if she only wants your money or any man can do the same if he only wants your body.

As for sex, well, I believe two people of similar sexual experiences should be together, because its unrealistic to expect everyone to remain virgins before a relationship.
Also, I believe sex shouldn't be the primary value of a relationship, but comes along naturally as part of it.
This is why so many marriages fizzle out because people select their mates based on superficial lists and requirements such as beauty and looks - but after marriage these things fade, because many have never really considered the person's true character/personality's suitability to theirs they end up with almost a stranger. Sex might then drop to a slow period (no one can have mind-blowing sex consistently there will always be slow periods during pregnancies, etc etc) and the man will really have nothing in common with this person because when all else failed only the sex held them together anyway since he had selected her so superficially. Now that sex is gone he sees no or little value in the relationship and only complains about how 'bad' or 'non-existent' the sex is and looks elsewhere.

Last edited by AsianGal; November 4th, 2009 at 05:49 pm.
- November 4th, 2009, 05:45 pm
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nightling's Avatar

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AsianGal wrote :
Reading all these posts I can't help but feel most of the people posting here have a somewhat casual attitude towards sex.

Either they see sex as just 'sex' by placing sole value on it, thus basing their values of relationships on sex which is the largest mitigating factor, or they just can't be half arsed to view sex as anything but just a ritual of pleasuring one's self along with another partner - empty and meaningless.

I'm a 23 years old woman and yes I'm a virgin. I've been engaged to my fiance since we were in high school but didn't want to go shotgun marriage because there's nothing worse than teenage idiots getting hitched for the sake of it.
Coincidentally we have quite a number more factors we have to consider than the average person in a relationship as we hail from different countries (we met while studying overseas), come from different cultural backgrounds and races, and worse, religions.

So you can see most people wouldn't have really bothered because it takes 'work'.
However, for my fiance, the moment he set eyes on me he said he knew he wanted me to be with him for the rest of his life.
He told me after we had known each other for about 3 months as friends that he didn't want to date me because it would be disrespectful to me (for some in our cultures, though this is probably 90% gone now due to westernisation/modernisation of our generations, dating is a very loose, casual way for people to experiment and he felt I was worth more than just an 'experiment'), he asked me to marry him.
I was stunned, because we were just teens. I mean I wanted to get through university (we both entered university at 17 because of our grades) and then get a career AND a life of independence before thinking of getting a husband!
I told him to give me time to think about it. Even though at that point we had become very close friends, the thought crossed my mind that he might be a slimy dirtbag who wanted to get into my pants by telling me he wanted to marry me and then pressurise me into sleeping with him using the 'we're going to get married anyway' card.
Story cut short, during the time I considered we remained friends and I finally said 'yes'.
We decided to get engaged and agreed that marrying at a young age might only serve to jepordise our futures - kids need a stable environment and if you're going to marry early have 'have a kid' by accident you can forget about your education and career.
Another long story cut short, my family was outraged as we come from an upper-class family and there are certain unspoken 'rules' you follow (which I completely disagree with. Its just that my family is very. Um. Conservative and last generation while my siblings and I were raised very modern) - that is, no dark people, no other religions except mine and the common Asian religion our race has, no poor people, no lower-class people, basically no choice except that which is approved by the family.
He faced the same thing. He comes from an upper-middle class family back in his home country and they weren't too happy I wasn't of his religion (they are very strict) and that I wasn't even the same race.
We fought for many years. I left my family and he did his - we still keep in close touch with them - as that was the only way to be together.
We left our wealth to fight in the real way and pay our way through everything - rent, bills, education, etc.
You might not blink an eye at this as it is normal in western countries to kick your kids out when they are teens or 20's to be independent but it is normal in Asian cultures to have your kids under your roof until they are married. So for us going independent was very scary, hard but we were so happy.
We moved and lived in 2 Asian countries (one being mine) and then moved to where we met overseas (Western country) to live.

This entire time we have vowed to keep ourselves for one another and aside from the peck/smooch on the cheek and lips we have no done anything sexual with one another.
He doesn't ever pressurise me nor I do him and he told me he is virgin too.
We're due to be married next year.

Of course, we're excited that we get to enjoy one another during our honeymoon.
My friends have told me that perhaps he's lying about being a virgin and he's happy to have a 'pure and wholesome good girl' type but he wouldn't have waited and fought together with me on both our families and cultures (in my country we were stared at and even harassed for me being with him, while those of the same races can make out by escalators no problem. So hypocritical!).
Plus not to mention my sister had jokingly told me that I would know if he's a virgin because all virgins have no idea what to do in the bedroom during their first time.

I find that really beautiful that we will be exploring one another for the first time in love and marriage.

We fought really hard and to me it really is worth waiting for the right person. Not only is he/she worth fighting for (look at how much we have gone through to get to where we are, on our own, through opposing families, cultures, racial and even religious barriers!) you appreciate the person so much more.
There is a kind of unfathomable trust we both have in one another which I find many couples do not have because they see their relationship in such a sterile, non-compromising (aka two separate individuals not two souls in one body) manner which is why there can be no compromise.

I believe men and women should ask themselves what is more worth it.
A woman/man who has strong principles and values who will stick by you through thick and thin or a woman who 'ticks all the boxes' in your superficial list of must-haves (i.e. must have a straight 90 degree angled nose, no more than size 14, good rack, puts out, doesn't play hard to get) - any woman can have these and pretend play the rest if she only wants your money or any man can do the same if he only wants your body.

As for sex, well, I believe two people of similar sexual experiences should be together, because its unrealistic to expect everyone to remain virgins before a relationship.
Also, I believe sex shouldn't be the primary value of a relationship, but comes along naturally as part of it.
This is why so many marriages fizzle out because people select their mates based on superficial lists and requirements such as beauty and looks - but after marriage these things fade, because many have never really considered the person's true character/personality's suitability to theirs they end up with almost a stranger. Sex might then drop to a slow period (no one can have mind-blowing sex consistently there will always be slow periods during pregnancies, etc etc) and the man will really have nothing in common with this person because when all else failed only the sex held them together anyway since he had selected her so superficially. Now that sex is gone he sees no or little value in the relationship and only complains about how 'bad' or 'non-existent' the sex is and looks elsewhere.
It seems you have it all figured out. I wish you luck.

Oh but I figured I'd clear up one thing. It is not an American custom to kick your kids out at any particular age. Most of us don't leave home until we're good and ready to.
- November 4th, 2009, 07:19 pm
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AsianGal made yummy chicken soup with dumplings!

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nightling wrote :
It seems you have it all figured out. I wish you luck.

Oh but I figured I'd clear up one thing. It is not an American custom to kick your kids out at any particular age. Most of us don't leave home until we're good and ready to.
I don't mean that all American kids get kicked out. It was just a metaphor. I'm sorry if I came across sounding crass.

I just meant that the Western concept of letting your kids leave home whenever they feel like to and the general level of encouragement I see Western parents (sorry if I'm generalising here) giving their kids to be independent and live on their own - that level of trust they have in their children is admirable.

Back home we just shorten it to 'kick them out' and most parents use it to scare their kids because Asian kids are normally encouraged to be dependent on their parents and instilled with the concept of filial piety the Asian way (parents living with you forever and ever and ever and if you're lucky to be the younger kid you get to live alone with your spouse but sucks for you if you're the eldest because thats their duty.) which can be very stifling.
But when I was younger it was a very attractive concept to me because it meant no painful, suffocating family pressure/expectation to conform to Asian values/standards/culture even though I was bred like most Asians to be very dependent on it.

Luckily for me it was easier to detach because I had the middle child syndrome. haha.

Thanks for your well wishes - my rant was a little off the charts silly but I wrote it while reading the thread and got angry at a few posts before writing the above.
I hope no one is offended.

Last edited by AsianGal; November 4th, 2009 at 07:37 pm.
- November 4th, 2009, 07:34 pm
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jayjay wrote :
I'd call it 'inconsistent'. I don't mean there's anything wrong with what she wanted. But regarding the 'baggage & age' thread... I don't equate youth with lack of sexual experience.
I think the answer to that is simple: most men will find even bad sex acceptable, but women, on the other hand...
- November 4th, 2009, 08:03 pm
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AsianGal - not offended, but you aren't quite westernized yet if you think less than a size 14 is agreeable to most men here. They insist on size 6 or less : ) (sorry...I'm being snarky about our contant and undying weight threads).

You're matched on values and goals. Good for you. The rest is optional. Not everyone will agree with you on that but I think it's the best foundation.

Best of luck. And thanks for the rant. It was fun to read.
- November 4th, 2009, 08:07 pm
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Just remember though in doing that a person is in fact placing a "value" on sexual experience. So if you're putting a value on sexual experience then you have to submit that there will be those that place a value on a lack of experience or virginity, for whatever reason.
Of course there are.

Did anyone say there wasn't?
- November 4th, 2009, 08:41 pm
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AsianGal made yummy chicken soup with dumplings!

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AsianGal - not offended, but you aren't quite westernized yet if you think less than a size 14 is agreeable to most men here. They insist on size 6 or less : ) (sorry...I'm being snarky about our contant and undying weight threads).

You're matched on values and goals. Good for you. The rest is optional. Not everyone will agree with you on that but I think it's the best foundation.

Best of luck. And thanks for the rant. It was fun to read.
I'm not sure if the UK/AU sizes are same to the US ones.
But I think a UK/AU size 14 is considered a US size 10.

That would make a UK/AU size 10 a size 6.
Sorry I'm not good with US conversions (i.e. ounces, pounds, etc, really hard!).

Maybe I should move to the U.S!

Well its a bit unreasonable for men to insist on a size 6 when to my knowledge a good many U.S men aren't exactly very fit themselves either.
I think a UK/AU size 14 (US size 10?) isn't bad at all. There's bound to be a little love handles here and there but I would think that men would prefer their women with a bit of shape and not stick figures.
Plus most western women are pretty tall so its not unreasonable to expect a taller woman to have a slightly thicker waist but not look fat.

I used to be a size UK/AU size 8 but got fat because um I got into a relationship with my bloke and he always insists on family meal time family meal time (no eating alone or skipping meals) and thanks to him I grew out 2 sizes and can't fit all my clothes, had to get a new wardrobe. ((

As for being westernised if that's the yardstick for being westernised then I'm probably not!
I think we as a society need to have a better grip on reality and not be so swayed by societal expectations for women to be unnaturally thin.
I meant westernised as in the ideals of freedom of the individual, children's upbringing (allowing them space, letting them choose their direction in life instead of choosing it for them, etc) which you'll find quite sparse in Asia.

Hehe, glad you had fun with my rant. I get overemotional with things sometimes.
- November 4th, 2009, 08:50 pm
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A virgin girl is the holy grail of a relationship. For me at least, but I have a good reason (I'm a virgin). And, I think at some level all guys that want a virgin, somehow understand the meaning of what a virgin symbolizes. I don't think that its about pure sexual pleasure, and you guys can't seem to rationalize any reason that it should be either. Nor, do I think that it has anything to do with bragging rights, actually thats kind of a moot point. Something has to be considered of value already before its worth bragging over. No, I think it has something to do with the fact of sex being a physical enactment of love and respect (I would include the embodiment of a permanent commitment, but that would be irevalent to the discussion). We still put value to sex for those reasons, or it wouldn't be considered such a bad thing for someone to cheat on thier partners. A virgin though, hasn't at least physically made such a commitment. For a guy to have a girl to at least appear to make that commitment to them is a huge boost to their ego, and the usually the guys with the already big egos are the ones that desire virgins the most. Regardless of the virgins reason for giving it up, its the mentality of being choose above a lot of others that boost the guys ego, its the percieved value of the act regardless of what the value of it is to the girl. I mean think about it. If you knew that someone going to give a nice crisp twenty dollar bill to someone in a room full of people. Give it to the person with the most charisma and/or looks, wouldn't you feel a little proud if you got even if you had a wallet full of twentys.

Tell us the difference between rain and perceived rain.
- November 4th, 2009, 09:04 pm
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6dle899 wrote :
Tell us the difference between rain and perceived rain.
Rain is water coming out of the sky, the result of various meteorological processes. You can perceive the value of it as being a good thing or not or as ruining your day (my outdoor wedding!) or making it better (ahh...the garden is saved), etc. Certainly there are significant differences in how people perceive the value of virginity and of sexual initiation, or else this thread never would have taken off...lol.
- November 4th, 2009, 09:27 pm
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Um, all value is perception. Facts are nouns, policies are verbs, and values are adjectives. Facts are things the way they are, objects or concepts with no conclusion or interpretation. Policies are actions, the way we perform various actions with the reason and situation factored in. Values are opinions, the meaning we apply to facts and policies and the connections we make between these things. It helps to avoid confusing these things =).

Sex is a fact, an object (I suppose you could positions or policies but then I'm getting a bit crude...but you get the point ). It is not good or bad. It is not beautiful or dirty. It is not love or control. It is not a commitment or recreation. It is what it is. All of those other things are values we place upon sex.

That doesn't mean all values are equal or that there aren't good, logical reasons for those values. I could argue casual sex is good because it is a good form of exercise, encourages the release of endorphins, and can improve health. I could just as easily argue casual sex is bad because it can easily cause communication issues and connections between people that are abusive towards each other, can result in pregnancy (no birth control but sterilization has a 100% prevention rate), and can result in disease. These are all logical reasons without even the value judgment of "Sex outside of marriage is OK/sinful."

Likewise virginity doesn't have any value beyond what we decide it does. We may have good (or bad) reasons for valuing virginity; it indicates purity and makes sex a unique activity with your lifelong partner, it's more challenging to sleep with someone who's held out up until now, so on and so forth.

Beware treating values as facts. It's an easy mistake to make .

Jacquesne
- November 4th, 2009, 10:42 pm
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