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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #11  October 27,2009, 10:02pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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Mangosteen wrote :
As someone who has dated a lot, but can't seem to make a relationship last longer than a year:

Relationships are known to be hard work. Is it quantifiable though? How much idealism is good? When is love not enough? How much fighting is too much? When is it not worth it anymore to try to make it work?
For me, the time when I need to keep my 'idealism' high is before I get into a relationship. It can be easy for me to 'lower my standards' initially if I'm not careful and let myself start getting involved with someone when I really shouldn't...and then later I'll have to end it. In the few cases where I've felt comfortable getting involved an into a relationship there really weren't issues with fighting or having to try to 'make it work'.
 
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MelinCali is offline MelinCali Post #12  October 27,2009, 10:07pm
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Mangosteen wrote :
The problem with this for me is that when I'm in a relationship I can have a non-objective view of the relationship as a whole due to the emotional tie I have to the other person. I might actually feel it is going better than it really is and it is hard to evaluate how happy I used to be as a single person because it's more comfortable at the time to stay in the relationship.
All the things you mentioned in the OP (idealism, love and working at a relationship) are IMO never going to be enough if you are in a relationship with someone who is incompatible. Working hard at it will only prolong the inevitable.

Since you are not observing that things are not working, you are probably missing that there is a real difference in your core values or life goals that is never going to allow you to mesh with this person no matter how much love you think there is. In the cases where he has ended your relationship, your exes have likely seen the glaring incompatibility that you have been blinded to. Love only goes so far, and is certainly not enough if it becomes one-sided.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #13  October 27,2009, 10:08pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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EMTZ wrote :
I wonder if somehow they make the partner think that the partner/relationship is the main source of their happiness, intentionally or not. Almost every guy I know does not want to be in an LTR with a woman he thinks is basing her happiness on him.

If I were you, I would spend long enough time to make myself truly happy being on my own. It may be tough if you are currently more comfortable to be in a relationship, but once you realize how little you actually need someone else to make yourself feel complete, it is very liberating. In my experience, once you are in that state, a lot of people are attracted to you and seem to actually get their happiness by being with you and therefore want to stay with you for the long run.
I know this is widely considered to be improper....but I actually like to feel that a woman I'm in a relationship with gets the largest share of her happiness in life from me and our relationship.

Also, to be honest I find it difficult to move beyond looking for a relationship when I don't have one. For me a relationship seems sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs....that it's only when the need for a relationship is filled that I really feel able to move on to higher levels of fulfillment. When I don't have a relationship....finding one is largely a central focus in my life. I know the conventional wisdom is to 'make yourself happy' and to not need a partner....but I find that a type of basic need that I have to fulfill before I can completely move on to complete other aspects of my life.
 
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Mangosteen is offline Mangosteen Post #14  October 27,2009, 10:11pm
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jayjay wrote :
I know this is widely considered to be improper....but I actually like to feel that a woman I'm in a relationship with gets the largest share of her happiness in life from me and our relationship.

Also, to be honest I find it difficult to move beyond looking for a relationship when I don't have one. For me a relationship seems sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs....that it's only when the need for a relationship is filled that I really feel able to move on to higher levels of fulfillment. When I don't have a relationship....finding one is largely a central focus in my life. I know the conventional wisdom is to 'make yourself happy' and to not need a partner....but I find that a type of basic need that I have to fulfill before I can completely move on to complete other aspects of my life.
You said that better than I could have, thanks Jayjay. I have heard repeatedly about "finding yourself" first and whatnot, and honestly, I'm not unhappy right now, I have plenty of friends (granted, mostly in LTRs, married, etc, but that like having me around anyway!), and still, I'm looking for that special someone.
 
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EMTZ is offline EMTZ Post #15  October 27,2009, 10:13pm
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jayjay wrote :
I know this is widely considered to be improper....but I actually like to feel that a woman I'm in a relationship with gets the largest share of her happiness in life from me and our relationship.

Also, to be honest I find it difficult to move beyond looking for a relationship when I don't have one. For me a relationship seems sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs....that it's only when the need for a relationship is filled that I really feel able to move on to higher levels of fulfillment. When I don't have a relationship....finding one is largely a central focus in my life. I know the conventional wisdom is to 'make yourself happy' and to not need a partner....but I find that a type of basic need that I have to fulfill before I can completely move on to complete other aspects of my life.
Yeah, I know a few men like you, but somehow in my social circle they are mostly not. Probably it is simply because the men who like to hang out with me are the ones who like women like me.

As for the second paragraph, perhaps you should learn Buddhism
 
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Mangosteen is offline Mangosteen Post #16  October 27,2009, 10:14pm
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MelinCali wrote :
All the things you mentioned in the OP (idealism, love and working at a relationship) are IMO never going to be enough if you are in a relationship with someone who is incompatible. Working hard at it will only prolong the inevitable.

Since you are not observing that things are not working, you are probably missing that there is a real difference in your core values or life goals that is never going to allow you to mesh with this person no matter how much love you think there is. In the cases where he has ended your relationship, your exes have likely seen the glaring incompatibility that you have been blinded to. Love only goes so far, and is certainly not enough if it becomes one-sided.


Yes, I think this is true. In may last breakup, which was especially hard for me, I think the timing was really off (he still had a lot he wanted to accomplish as far as professional goals) versus I was at a stage of being completely stable in life and ready for the next step. I haven't thought of a way of stepping back though to see things more clearly... I find that almost impossible to do in the moment. "Love is blind"?
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #17  October 27,2009, 10:21pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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EMTZ wrote :
As for the second paragraph, perhaps you should learn Buddhism
I can only really devote myself to higher things like this when I'm already in a relationship.

BTW: Mango....what does the thread title refer to? I don't see the direct relation to your initial post.
 
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cp30 is offline cp30 Post #18  October 27,2009, 10:46pm

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those are really good questions mangosteen....and I can relate.

I think I have been the whole spectrum from overly idealistic to extremely negative in the beginning.

I've been called on both...

Naturally, over time I think it becomes natural to become more gun shy and negative, slower to trust and believe.

And it serves you very well, in most cases, but can also make you very much alone.

At some point you have to trust your instincts, and your judgement about who you are seeing, and maybe intentionally inject a bit of idealism if negativity is a problem for you (or the opposite if you are too idealistic).

It seems to me, that...most important is to find someone that matches or understands your level of both. Oddly enough, I'm finding that a willingness to communicate, no matter how awkward or messy is probably the best thing...but both people must be willing to do so.

As for relationships in general though, I feel I am pretty realistic about them and have a lower tolerance for those who are only romantic and throw caution to the wind. I try to avoid people that expect there will be no 'work' involved.

As for how much 'work' is neccessary. Well, I seem to be attracted to people who are very different from me. So, I'd say a lot! As long as, at the root there is a genuine desire to understand the other person and 'like' and not so much, competition or lack of respect. You should (as realistically as possible) see each other as equals.

All of which at times seems decidedly impossible so I wouldn't take any of the breakups too personally!

But, it has made me more willing to accept some of the things I might not normally 'want' for things I know I need. It's a 'weighted model' some traits are more important than others. I'm willing to put up with some undesirables for positives that I can't find in anyone else.

Lots of trial and error to find out what these things actually ARE.
 
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librarybabe is offline librarybabe Post #19  October 28,2009, 7:37am
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jayjay wrote :

Also, to be honest I find it difficult to move beyond looking for a relationship when I don't have one. For me a relationship seems sort of like Maslow's hierarchy of needs....that it's only when the need for a relationship is filled that I really feel able to move on to higher levels of fulfillment.
jayjay wrote :
I can only really devote myself to higher things like this when I'm already in a relationship.
Good ol' Maslow. Forgot about him and his pyramid. Great. Now I'm depressed. What I feel I need most during times when I am really unhappy about not being in a relationship is spiritual fulfillment, and now I am reminded that according to Maslow, I can't even have that until I find a guy. Carp. Stinks to be single.

In all actuality, I know that my spirituality has seen me through some major rough spots, but I don't really appreciate it when I am alone like I should. And the last time I experienced a lot of spiritual growth was while I was dating some guy. Best thing about dating him actually. Guess Maslow was right, at least about me.
 
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SierraMountainAir is offline SierraMountainAir Post #20  October 28,2009, 7:59am
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Mangosteen wrote :
Yeah I was kinda wondering if I am too picky or expecting too much. I think my idealism still runs pretty high;

Please stay that way, as bitterness, cynicism and exhaustion runs rampant around here.


You look young and staggeringly beautiful to me, so that suggests you will attract a LOT of chaff but enough wheat too to make an intelligent informed selection next time.

I wish you well.
 
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