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jayjay jayjay is offline
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shoopthedoop wrote :
I think consoling someone when they had a bad day at the office is a role both partners should be willing to play in a relationship.
I agree...and I also don't mind showing when I'm feeling badly about something. However for me, in relationships, things are generally pretty heavily weighted in one direction. While I can express things like this to a woman....I expect to be there for her in ways like this much more than vice versa. What I've found (at least with the women I've had relationships with) is that while they appreciate a certain amount of vulnerability in a man....this needs to be pretty limited. I remember one gf who didn't like seeing me sick. She said I normally seem to unflappable and invulnerable that she didn't like seeing me with the physical vulnerability of being sick. And, while I enjoy showing my vulnerabilities at times....I also enjoy putting these kinds of things aside to be there when a woman needs me to be strong for her.

shoopthedoop wrote :
I agree with your second point. There's a huge difference in my eyes between someone being appreciative of you paying for things for them and expecting you to pay for things for them.
Yes, for me too it's the genuine appreciation for things like paying for a date that makes me enjoy and want to do things like this. In the threads on men paying for dates....when women have said they expect a man to pay for a date I don't recall them saying what, if anything, they give in return (even appreciation). There are plenty of comments about wanting equality in things like housework....but I don't recall reading what women think equalizes men paying for dates.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:24 pm
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jayjay wrote :
Nah....Catwomen are notoriously independent and don't need help from mere mortals like me.
BOO.

it's okay. I don't even own a lawnmower.

seriously though, independent or no, I still apprieciate when a SO does things like that for me- it's one of the things i love about men. however, I never realized that some men would be less interested in me if i didn't need that extra special treatment. In fact, IME, some men will use what he does for you (paying on a date, etc,) as some kind of point system for what he recieves in return- it's the curse of the "Nice Guy".

my deal is that if someone offers to do something for me, I protest once and that's it. I feel like anytime you give someone a gift or do something sweet it should be given freely, but that's not always the case.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:27 pm
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WYskywatcher WYskywatcher is offline
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Great thread jayjay. Carp! I have many thoughts on this topic but must go study for tomorrow's literature exam. Darned responsibility!!
- October 21st, 2009, 04:27 pm
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D_Lion wrote :
This got big in a hurry. Answering the OP without having read it all.

I do not hold “traditional” roles at all. I doubt I would even if the labor market functioned as it did in my grandparents’ era, but since it does not, that is too hypothetical to contemplate.

I would not even consider a commitment to a woman without a reasonably prosperous career (though in my history I in fact have a majority of partners who were still students or part time workers not yet established in a career.)

In terms of in the home, I do not really understand the desire for having someone to fill the “housewife” role – I am more than capable of providing the minimal amount of housework necessary to keep my house acceptable (at least, to my standards.)

I have also found that I need the intellectual and personality attributes of accomplished, motivated people.

In effect, I think roles are undefined by gender entirely.
DL I had a hunch this would be your general preference. This sounds pretty much like the true 'equality' in a relationship in terms of both partners expecting to provide the same things as they receive in a relationship. I also expect there are quite a number of women around who are also looking for this same thing. Though, what I don't understand is why some of them hang onto the vestiges of old traditions like waiting for the man to initiate communication, for him to pay for dates etc.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:31 pm
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WYskywatcher wrote :
Great thread jayjay. Carp! I have many thoughts on this topic but must go study for tomorrow's literature exam. Darned responsibility!!
Literature schmiterature.

"Never let school interfere with your education."
- October 21st, 2009, 04:32 pm
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alissag wrote :
Unfortunately, as soon as I stopped working, I was no longer an equal in his eyes. I cannot tell you how many times I heard him say "well, I make the money" WT...! I no longer had equal say in decision making and it filtered into every aspect of our relationship. In the end he was treating me and interacting with me in a completely different manner. No longer were my feelings or opinions of any importance or value. The equality, respect and admiration had vanished.

Not that is does you any good, but if anyone is after a man's point of view, I admit to being exactly like this.

It's one more reason I don't date non-professional people.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:32 pm
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jayjay wrote :
Regarding the question: "This brings up a point that I'm very interested in: are the roles, such as 'protector/provider' and 'nurterer' strictly external (the work each person does) or are they principally internal and reflect the emotional/psychological contributions of each person within the relationship?" you wrote...



For me the internal motivation for the role I want to play in a relationship is what causes me to do external things. Without this inner motivation I wouldn't do the 'provide/protect' type things. Similarly, it's a woman having something in her on an emotional level that responds to, appreciates and looks to me to do these kinds of things that makes me want to do them. Otherwise...why would I?

And for me the 'provide/protect' things aren't dramatic unusual actions. For example, on a cold snowy night when we have plans for her to come to my place I go to pick her up rather than having her drive through the weather to my place. To allow me to make all the arrangements for a trip we're going to go on. Or, just her being willing to express when she's feeling down and discouraged at her job and to allow me to wrap her up in my arms and make her feel secure. But there has to be that internal aspect to give/receive these things in both of us for me to want to do them.

To go back for a minute to the perpetual topic of 'who pays' for things on a date. Paying for things on dates can be something I enjoy tremendously....but only if I see that internally this is something a woman values as a way of letting me care for her. That internal aspect of 'protect/provide' has to be there for me to want and enjoy doing things like that. If she seems to have the attitude of 'I don't need you...but thanks for the free meal' I certainly wouldn't have any interest in continuing to do such things.
I understand where you are coming from and wholeheartedly agree... They aren't dramatic or unusual things... the everyday things.

I think some people are just wired that way, I know I am. I find enjoyment in doing things and going out of my way for the people I care about, whether for my family, friends, my kids or my man. However, all of it comes to a halt once it is expected, taken for granted or not appreciated.

I'm a giver it's just my nature, it's one of the ways I express my feelings. Not every one is like that, but, I want that in the person I am with. Like you said, both parties need to possess it. That's a deal breaker for me, I won't settle on that one.

It comes down to a possessing certain personality traits... appreciative, unassuming, kind, thoughtful sincere, selfless (to a degree). You wouldn't have friends that lacked these qualities, you sure wouldn't be interested in a woman who lacked them, either. I'm with you on that!
- October 21st, 2009, 04:34 pm
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scarlet13 wrote :
BOO.

it's okay. I don't even own a lawnmower.

seriously though, independent or no, I still apprieciate when a SO does things like that for me- it's one of the things i love about men. however, I never realized that some men would be less interested in me if i didn't need that extra special treatment. In fact, IME, some men will use what he does for you (paying on a date, etc,) as some kind of point system for what he recieves in return- it's the curse of the "Nice Guy".

my deal is that if someone offers to do something for me, I protest once and that's it. I feel like anytime you give someone a gift or do something sweet it should be given freely, but that's not always the case.
What I've always found, at least with the women I've been with, is that when I do things for them....this inspires them to want to give back, though this may be in different ways. While I agree that expecting something in return every time you do something is really distasteful....at the same time if I were to find I'm giving much more than the other person that also wouldn't be workable for me in the long run.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:35 pm
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scarlet13 wrote :
I feel like anytime you give someone a gift or do something sweet it should be given freely, but that's not always the case.

You are exactly right.

The flip side is, that gifts must be gifts which can only be given. They cannot be nagged, whined, cajoled, etc, out of a partner.

Nothing wrong with giving or accepting; nothing wrong with negotiating; but everything wrong with the sense of entitlement often encountered.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:36 pm
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alissag alissag is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
Not that is does you any good, but if anyone is after a man's point of view, I admit to being exactly like this.

It's one more reason I don't date non-professional people.
Ha ha ha... see, your post is why I will always have a career. I'll never give up that puppy again!

Most men I have met hold your same viewpoint. The great thing is that you KNOW this and can be honest about it.
Last edited by alissag; October 21st, 2009 at 04:42 pm.
- October 21st, 2009, 04:39 pm
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