jayjay is offline jayjay Post #51  October 21,2009, 2:39pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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Regarding the question: "This brings up a point that I'm very interested in: are the roles, such as 'protector/provider' and 'nurterer' strictly external (the work each person does) or are they principally internal and reflect the emotional/psychological contributions of each person within the relationship?" you wrote...

alissag wrote :
They can be strictly one or the other or both. Depending on what each individual wants them to be.. You decide for yourself what they are. Do you want them to be strictly one or the other? I look for the duality in a partner, they can take on either role when necessary, both externally and internally. The ebb and flow thing.

For me the internal motivation for the role I want to play in a relationship is what causes me to do external things. Without this inner motivation I wouldn't do the 'provide/protect' type things. Similarly, it's a woman having something in her on an emotional level that responds to, appreciates and looks to me to do these kinds of things that makes me want to do them. Otherwise...why would I?

And for me the 'provide/protect' things aren't dramatic unusual actions. For example, on a cold snowy night when we have plans for her to come to my place I go to pick her up rather than having her drive through the weather to my place. To allow me to make all the arrangements for a trip we're going to go on. Or, just her being willing to express when she's feeling down and discouraged at her job and to allow me to wrap her up in my arms and make her feel secure. But there has to be that internal aspect to give/receive these things in both of us for me to want to do them.

To go back for a minute to the perpetual topic of 'who pays' for things on a date. Paying for things on dates can be something I enjoy tremendously....but only if I see that internally this is something a woman values as a way of letting me care for her. That internal aspect of 'protect/provide' has to be there for me to want and enjoy doing things like that. If she seems to have the attitude of 'I don't need you...but thanks for the free meal' I certainly wouldn't have any interest in continuing to do such things.
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #52  October 21,2009, 2:50pm
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shoopthedoop wrote :
By doing all three of those things you are being ambitious. Why would you want to do those things and not get rewarded for it? If you felt you didn't want to be rewarded for clearly going above and beyond, then you would be a unique human indeed.

That doesn't mean you have to campaign for a promotion. But an employee who does what you mentioned above will be recognized and rewarded by a good boss.
but you said:

wrote :
I wouldn't see becoming a librarian as an ambitious goal. If you wanted to be the head of a library that is something different.
so what are you saying? you don't need to get a promotion to be ambitious? or do you?

ETA: I'm not going to comment on this further, because i don't want to hijack the thread.
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #53  October 21,2009, 2:56pm
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jayjay wrote :

For me the internal motivation for the role I want to play in a relationship is what causes me to do external things. Without this inner motivation I wouldn't do the 'provide/protect' type things. Similarly, it's a woman having something in her on an emotional level that responds to, appreciates and looks to me to do these kinds of things that makes me want to do them. Otherwise...why would I?

And for me the 'provide/protect' things aren't dramatic unusual actions. For example, on a cold snowy night when we have plans for her to come to my place I go to pick her up rather than having her drive through the weather to my place. To allow me to make all the arrangements for a trip we're going to go on. Or, just her being willing to express when she's feeling down and discouraged at her job and to allow me to wrap her up in my arms and make her feel secure. But there has to be that internal aspect to give/receive these things in both of us for me to want to do them.
so let's say that a woman you are dating for instance drives just fine in the snow and isn't the type to complain about her job, and wants to plan the vacation together- would this somehow make you feel less like the protector/provider, and consequently make you less interested in the relationship? I'm curious.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #54  October 21,2009, 3:01pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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scarlet13 wrote :
so let's say that a woman you are dating for instance drives just fine in the snow and isn't the type to complain about her job, and wants to plan the vacation together- would this somehow make you feel less like the protector/provider, and consequently make you less interested in the relationship? I'm curious.
What I wrote were a few specific examples, but they needn't be these specific things. Also...it doesn't really matter if she 'can' do these things. The idea is if doing some things makes it easier for her. But, yes...generally if a woman doesn't have an internal desire for a man to be a 'provider/protector' in some form then I probably won't have much interest in a relationship with her. Well, unless maybe she's super hot. lol
 
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shoopthedoop is offline shoopthedoop Post #55  October 21,2009, 3:04pm
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scarlet13 wrote :
o what are you saying? you don't need to get a promotion to be ambitious? or do you?
There's a difference between wanting a promotion plus doing the work to get one and openly campaigning for it. That's the difference between ambition and self-aggrandizement.
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #56  October 21,2009, 3:06pm
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jayjay wrote :
What I wrote were a few specific examples, but they needn't be these specific things. Also...it doesn't really matter if she 'can' do these things. The idea is if doing some things makes it easier for her. But, yes...generally if a woman doesn't have an internal desire for a man to be a 'provider/protector' in some form then I probably won't have much interest in a relationship with her. Well, unless maybe she's super hot. lol
hmm.

see, i just see them as nice things you do for someone in a relationship, and they should be apprieciated, man or woman. i don't think that it's exclusive to being a protector.

BUT

if you want to come over and do some yardwork for me...
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #57  October 21,2009, 3:08pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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scarlet13 wrote :
hmm.

see, i just see them as nice things you do for someone in a relationship, and they should be apprieciated, man or woman. i don't think that it's exclusive to being a protector.

BUT

if you want to come over and do some yardwork for me...
Nah....Catwomen are notoriously independent and don't need help from mere mortals like me.
 
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shoopthedoop is offline shoopthedoop Post #58  October 21,2009, 3:08pm
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jayjay wrote :
And for me the 'provide/protect' things aren't dramatic unusual actions. Or, just her being willing to express when she's feeling down and discouraged at her job and to allow me to wrap her up in my arms and make her feel secure. But there has to be that internal aspect to give/receive these things in both of us for me to want to do them.

To go back for a minute to the perpetual topic of 'who pays' for things on a date. Paying for things on dates can be something I enjoy tremendously....but only if I see that internally this is something a woman values as a way of letting me care for her. That internal aspect of 'protect/provide' has to be there for me to want and enjoy doing things like that. If she seems to have the attitude of 'I don't need you...but thanks for the free meal' I certainly wouldn't have any interest in continuing to do such things.
I think consoling someone when they had a bad day at the office is a role both partners should be willing to play in a relationship.

I agree with your second point. There's a huge difference in my eyes between someone being appreciative of you paying for things for them and expecting you to pay for things for them.
 
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DreamingOfAtlantis is offline DreamingOfAtlantis Post #59  October 21,2009, 3:18pm
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shoopthedoop wrote :
I could see the job of being a librarian being fulfilling, but not very ambitious.

Where do people who own their own businesses go next? Seriously? They are engaged in constant efforts to grow their business. Ask any business owner and that's what they will tell you the ambitious business owner's plan is.



DoA, I have no problems answering a question. If want to debate my answer that's fine. If you want to ask another question without regard to my first answer ... well have fun. Maybe you're seeing me in that unequal teacher-student power relationship.
I'm a bit puzzled about this response. I asked a question, the answer included a somewhat vague term that could vary from person to person. I wanted clarification, so I asked for it. I really don't see who, in this exchange, could be a teacher or a student.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #60  October 21,2009, 3:22pm
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This got big in a hurry. Answering the OP without having read it all.

I do not hold “traditional” roles at all. I doubt I would even if the labor market functioned as it did in my grandparents’ era, but since it does not, that is too hypothetical to contemplate.

I would not even consider a commitment to a woman without a reasonably prosperous career (though in my history I in fact have a majority of partners who were still students or part time workers not yet established in a career.)

In terms of in the home, I do not really understand the desire for having someone to fill the “housewife” role – I am more than capable of providing the minimal amount of housework necessary to keep my house acceptable (at least, to my standards.)

I have also found that I need the intellectual and personality attributes of accomplished, motivated people.

In effect, I think roles are undefined by gender entirely.
 
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