nightling is offline nightling Post #241  October 24,2009, 8:30am
nightling's Avatar

all I'll leave are smoke rings in the dark.

Power Poster

Joined: Sep 2009

Misery

Posts: 6,943

See profile

in light of the discussion here this article seems intersting. gender differences seem to be a continuum.

washingtonpost.com

not sure why the link only shows washinton post ... it leads to the correct article
Last edited by nightling; October 24,2009 at 9:01am.
 
  Reply With Quote
WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #242  October 24,2009, 8:44am
WYskywatcher's Avatar

got her profile back! Thank you tech guy! :-)

Virtuoso

Joined: Jul 2009

Least populated state in the country!

Posts: 2,960

See profile

jayjay wrote :
You're lucky. I didn't have much to choose from for my life until I became an adult.
 
  Reply With Quote
DreamingOfAtlantis is offline DreamingOfAtlantis Post #243  October 24,2009, 12:07pm
DreamingOfAtl…'s Avatar

finally finished writing the screenplay "Dreaming of Altantis!"

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2008

Richmond, Virginia

Posts: 2,509

See profile

nightling wrote :
This seems true to me as I think about what has worked in my past relationships. But ... yeah there is always a caveat. Expanding it beyond the dance loor .... The guy has to actually know what he is talking about in general, not just be self-confident or I won't follow his lead. And if I know he's mistaken and he won't listen to me, that is a mega turnoff.
But that's you. I've found that the women on eHA (and men as well) think about these things at a higher level than most people do. I have been told by friends, over and over, that it's a "problem" that I listen to women and don't just take charge no matter what and I've been shown times where I behaved that way and the woman never went out with me again, but did go out with (and stay with) someone we knew who was cocky and didn't mind telling her what to do.
 
  Reply With Quote
WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #244  October 24,2009, 12:13pm
WYskywatcher's Avatar

got her profile back! Thank you tech guy! :-)

Virtuoso

Joined: Jul 2009

Least populated state in the country!

Posts: 2,960

See profile

DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
I mentioned in another thread issues I had because I was growing up during the feminist movement and slogans like, "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle" really messed with my head. I listened to that kind of stuff and for years thought that my role as a man was to be equal and both of us were supposed to be the same.
I agree with the general gist of feminism..."don't suppress or abuse me just because of my sex." At the same time, I think feminism has been instrumental in giving both sexes a bad rap.

You have masculinity and femininity. I think of them as energy. By genetic make-up, females tend to be more feminine and males more masculine. Of course, there are guys who are more feminine and gals who are more masculine but in general, males are masculine, females are feminine. No problem.

The problem starts when the concepts of masculinity and femininity get skewed and wrongfully labeled because of the real culprit, bad behavior, which is usually the product of another influence like abuse, abandonment or mental illness.

Bad behavior is not exclusive to either sex. Manipulation, aggressiveness, bigotry, sulkyness and selfishness, etc. is prevalent in males and females.

Until I was 30, I fought against femininity. I felt like being female made me vulnerable. Like lizziepooh said, not only could I do what any man could do, I could do it better. I would take care of myself.

[At 23, I poorly choose a marital partner from this broken mentality.]

At 30, my feelings about this began to change. Evolve is probably a better description. I'm sure motherhood had much to do with it. I no longer equated femininity to vulnerability and weakness.

I think so differently now then I did in my 20's--thank goodness!! (Growing up has been good for me. )

Femininity is not weak. It is creative, contemplative, intuitive, alluring, charming and graceful. Femininity is beautiful and powerful.

Masculinity is not aggressive. It is strong, decisive, wise, powerful, tender and chivalrous. Masculinity is protective and bold.


Whew! So what am I really trying to say? lol

Regardless of your sex...

Know yourself.
Be true to yourself, and
Be a kind, thoughtful, respectful "self."
 
  Reply With Quote
nightling is offline nightling Post #245  October 24,2009, 12:20pm
nightling's Avatar

all I'll leave are smoke rings in the dark.

Power Poster

Joined: Sep 2009

Misery

Posts: 6,943

See profile

DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
But that's you. I've found that the women on eHA (and men as well) think about these things at a higher level than most people do. I have been told by friends, over and over, that it's a "problem" that I listen to women and don't just take charge no matter what and I've been shown times where I behaved that way and the woman never went out with me again, but did go out with (and stay with) someone we knew who was cocky and didn't mind telling her what to do.
So my thinking was at a lower level?

I will just say, I agree I like someone who can lead. But there's a range. People who are cocky and don't mind telling you what to do even when they are wrong do not make good husbands.
 
  Reply With Quote
DreamingOfAtlantis is offline DreamingOfAtlantis Post #246  October 24,2009, 12:30pm
DreamingOfAtl…'s Avatar

finally finished writing the screenplay "Dreaming of Altantis!"

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2008

Richmond, Virginia

Posts: 2,509

See profile

WYskywatcher wrote :
I agree with the general gist of feminism..."don't suppress or abuse me just because of my sex." At the same time, I think feminism has been instrumental in giving both sexes a bad rap....
While I agree with your whole post, I'm just quoting what I thought was the best part -- and if that part was all you had posted, I'd still say it was one of the best (if not the best) posts in this thread that summarizes a lot of the problems.

I did the flip, or, as a man, did what many women have done. I picked a controlling spouse. I thought she was a strong woman, but that was when I was mistaking manipulation or unhealthy ambition for strength. I had this split view of myself. One side was that as a man, I wanted a match, an equal, someone who wouldn't just roll over in a disagreement, someone who would test my mettle. But on the other hand, and this is the part that goes back to what I said earlier about growing up and hearing all the overstated slogans of the feminist movement, was in thinking that women were supposed to be empowered and that men were being macho and controlling women -- so every time I was about to stand up and draw a line, I'd get this feeling that doing so was squashing her and being an overbearing man. So I let her walk all over me.

What's worse is that she left when I was 29, after doing some horizontal dancing with her boss. That's not the worse, or worst, part. Within the next 2 years I was in counseling and getting help and thought I found a healthy "strong" woman and walked right into an even more controlling and abusive relationship. I didn't see this and, honestly, she was the love of my life. I've never loved more passionately or more deeply. We were talking about names for our kids and what schools we'd send them to. But after we were engaged about 8 months, I saw just what she was doing and realized that, as a human, I was more valuable and worth more respect than she showed for me and I made the hardest choice of my life and broke it off.

So after that I stayed in counseling and did some other alternative activities (like rebirthing) that really helped me get things straight and helped me realized that whether or not I was a man was something that was inside me. It didn't depend on the woman I was seeing and if she was strong or needed comfort or what. Whether we're real men and women depends on US, not whether we're with a tall or short, busty, or heavy partner.

But what really hurts is that all that was so long ago and in all that time, since I learned to keep a more healthy view of relationships, and even though I actually spent time reading about things like communicating with your partner and such, in all that time, I have not been able to find one women to experience all those things I learned about a healthy perception of relationships or gender roles or what makes a man or woman a real man or woman.
 
  Reply With Quote
DreamingOfAtlantis is offline DreamingOfAtlantis Post #247  October 24,2009, 12:33pm
DreamingOfAtl…'s Avatar

finally finished writing the screenplay "Dreaming of Altantis!"

Virtuoso

Joined: May 2008

Richmond, Virginia

Posts: 2,509

See profile

nightling wrote :
So my thinking was at a lower level?

I will just say, I agree I like someone who can lead. But there's a range. People who are cocky and don't mind telling you what to do even when they are wrong do not make good husbands.
It may have been, I don't know for sure. By lower and higher levels (and that was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant that people here tend to be the people that do put a lot of thought into these things and are the kind that are willing to change when they realize they're doing something that doesn't work.

I would agree with you about who makes a good or bad husband, but my observation, and this is what my friends have pointed out to me, is that those cocky guys get a lot more dates than the ones that aren't that way.

Also, yes, cocky guys may not make good husbands, but that's the reality and what matters is people's perception, at least before the know is tied.

Oh, and one thing I'm proud of is what women say about my lead. They love it because I give them a good, clear, strong lead, but I don't put too much force in it and women say they love it that I am clear, but that they don't feel pushed or forced into a move. Women tell me they really like that middle ground, where I make the intent clear and show them the way, but let them make the choice to follow me instead of making them do it.
Last edited by DreamingOfAtlantis; October 24,2009 at 12:37pm.
 
  Reply With Quote
WYskywatcher is offline WYskywatcher Post #248  October 24,2009, 12:34pm
WYskywatcher's Avatar

got her profile back! Thank you tech guy! :-)

Virtuoso

Joined: Jul 2009

Least populated state in the country!

Posts: 2,960

See profile

DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
After bad relationships, I still hadn't changed my mind. But after learning ballroom dancing, yes, I did change my mind. I find that women, overall, do like the man to be the protector and that some of the traditional observations hold true.

I find that every woman I ever dance with, no exceptions, wants me to hold a strong frame, not just firm, but strong. They want to not only feel like I know exactly what I want to do, but that I'll show them, with decisiveness, what I want, that I'll protect them (from bumping into others), and that I, as the man, will stay in control. Men want a woman who responds to them.
This is so true! I took ballroom dance lessons for fun. I learned so much more than how to Tango, Cha-Cha and Waltz. I learned what I want a relationship to look like.

You're description of the dancing partnership is a beautiful analogy of it. Just because the man is leading does not make the woman any less important. She still has to know the steps. She has to be able to respond to the lead, which means she has to be paying attention and fully invested. The man has to be decisive and able to lead. When he does his job well, the couple dance effortlessly and safely through life...er...across the dance floor.

DoA: The biggest thing I had to learn was how to LET the man lead. A difficult and scary lesson in being vulnerable, but after the trust was established, amazingly freeing and so worth it!
 
  Reply With Quote
nightling is offline nightling Post #249  October 24,2009, 12:51pm
nightling's Avatar

all I'll leave are smoke rings in the dark.

Power Poster

Joined: Sep 2009

Misery

Posts: 6,943

See profile

DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
It may have been, I don't know for sure. By lower and higher levels (and that was a poor choice of words on my part), I meant that people here tend to be the people that do put a lot of thought into these things and are the kind that are willing to change when they realize they're doing something that doesn't work.

I would agree with you about who makes a good or bad husband, but my observation, and this is what my friends have pointed out to me, is that those cocky guys get a lot more dates than the ones that aren't that way.

Also, yes, cocky guys may not make good husbands, but that's the reality and what matters is people's perception, at least before the know is tied.

Oh, and one thing I'm proud of is what women say about my lead. They love it because I give them a good, clear, strong lead, but I don't put too much force in it and women say they love it that I am clear, but that they don't feel pushed or forced into a move. Women tell me they really like that middle ground, where I make the intent clear and show them the way, but let them make the choice to follow me instead of making them do it.

Would you really be satisfied with a woman who is bossed around by a cocky guy who doesn't really know what he's talking about? Wouldn't you at heart not be able to respect that woman? Respect I think is crucial to real love. I mean after all you are looking for The One. Not just anyone. Right?

That said, fortune does favor the bold, so I get what you're saying. But I personally would be turned off by someone bossing me around when I know he's about to drive off a cliff.
 
  Reply With Quote
D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #250  October 24,2009, 1:06pm
D_Lion's Avatar

- Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

Sage

Joined: Aug 2008

Posts: 31,659

See profile

nightling wrote :
Would you really be satisfied with a woman who is bossed around by a cocky guy who doesn't really know what he's talking about? Wouldn't you at heart not be able to respect that woman?

You are so right, but I have had these partners too. It is very easy to naturally get into this dynamic. I often have to catch myself from it.
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply


« Bye-Bye Baby Steps! | Dating | To shave or not to shave; this is the question »
Topic Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new topics
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are Off

Similar Topics
Topic Topic Starter Board Replies Last Post
The negative gender stereotype that says ____________ hurts ME as a person because ____________ eH_Advice_Admin_Lori About You 13 February 17,2010 12:07am
Gender and dating brneyedangel Dating 153 September 27,2009 8:13pm
Gender Reassignment meri75 A Man's Point of view 3 September 12,2009 11:27pm
Friends of opposite gender / effects on relationships? eH_Advice_Admin_Lori Relationships 2 June 24,2009 10:31am

Looking for a Great Relationship?

Get started now. Fill out this form and take the questionnaire to receive your matches.

First Name:

I'm a:
seeking

Postal Code:

Country:

Email:

Confirm Email:

Password:


How did you hear about us?


Latest on our Dating Advice Discussion Boards

“Ingy - I'm not sure what you're reading, but I've consistently said he was totally my type. Yes, I have said he wasn't a looker, but I have also said I was relatively certain I would warm to him ... ” –  Carole1520

Join the “My first "Matchmaker" date” discussion

“OP, do you have celiac disease? If not, I hate to burst your bubble but there's no health benefit to giving up gluten. Gluten is problematic only to people who have reactions to it, and you'd know ... ” –  jimmyh452

Join the “Living Without....” discussion

“ Most folks don't want to see matches that don't fit within their preferences. I know I didn't. That's why they set their preferences! ” –  FairOne

Join the “Different Strategy” discussion

“Yeah, this article was pretty disgusting. Not surprising how many women try to justify such tactics. The woman in the article clearly cares more about getting married than about who she marries. A ... ” –  jimmyh452

Join the “How to Get the Proposal You Want...Without Asking For It” discussion

“LOL....Yet another thread started by a "newbie" who is gone after one post just to rile up the community.....” –  Ingytravel

Join the “who pays?” discussion

“ I did try to follow a comic book series once. It was called Starfire and she had a costume change due to her outfit being caught on a nail. It was similar to something that people found ... ” –  harnomygirl

Join the “Avengers” discussion



All times are GMT -8. The time now is 1:41pm.

Discussion Boards Archive

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0