jayjay is offline jayjay Post #181  October 22,2009, 8:36am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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shoopthedoop wrote :
Isn't gender roles more of a big picture, macro view of things?

In any given relationship there are certain roles the people will play that might fit the larger gender roles and certain roles that won't.

If you discuss it with your partner and you both agree that the man should be take care of house/yard maintenance and repairs, for example, does it really matter that it coincides with the societal standard of gender roles? Would it change things if the woman in the relationship was more likely to play that role, just because it isn't the societal norm?

As long as both people are happy with the relationship, I have no issue with non-traditional roles.
Definitely. For example, in a past relationship I was very much the 'provider/protector'....but as I would oftentimes do work at home during grad school I'd do most of the housework. These made nice breaks for me away from the schoolwork. This didn't make me any less of the Man in the relationship.
 
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alissag is offline alissag Post #182  October 22,2009, 8:51am
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jayjay wrote :
Definitely. For example, in a past relationship I was very much the 'provider/protector'....but as I would oftentimes do work at home during grad school I'd do most of the housework. These made nice breaks for me away from the schoolwork. This didn't make me any less of the Man in the relationship.
I don't really care about the external gender roles. Working full time I want a man that will share in those responsibilities. If he hates cooking, I'll take that one, I love to cook. If there is something we both really dislike, let's alternate it.

My worry with having completely traditional external gender roles is that it will filter down and affect the internal roles. The man is the dominant one, decision maker, and all of my feelings, opinions etc. carry less weight and are of less consequence. We aren't emotional equals. This is what I experienced in my marriage and has definitely influenced my way of thinking. Some things take more time to deprogram after a 12 year relationship.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #183  October 22,2009, 9:35am
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alissag wrote :
I don't really care about the external gender roles. Working full time I want a man that will share in those responsibilities. If he hates cooking, I'll take that one, I love to cook. If there is something we both really dislike, let's alternate it.

My worry with having completely traditional external gender roles is that it will filter down and affect the internal roles. The man is the dominant one, decision maker, and all of my feelings, opinions etc. carry less weight and are of less consequence. We aren't emotional equals. This is what I experienced in my marriage and has definitely influenced my way of thinking. Some things take more time to deprogram after a 12 year relationship.
I don't know. It seems that your ex-husband was insecure & needed to feel dominant over you to compensate for that.

I think that you said it well that there is a spectrum & you probably need to find someone that is at a diiferent point in that line.

It sounds like you would give & he would take & take advantage. I can usually spot that type of personality...especially in a guy. It is usually easier to recognize things in your own gender unfortunately.

Recognizing certain insecurities & controlling attitudes would be helpful in your situation.
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #184  October 22,2009, 9:47am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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alissag wrote :
I don't really care about the external gender roles. Working full time I want a man that will share in those responsibilities. If he hates cooking, I'll take that one, I love to cook. If there is something we both really dislike, let's alternate it.

My worry with having completely traditional external gender roles is that it will filter down and affect the internal roles. The man is the dominant one, decision maker, and all of my feelings, opinions etc. carry less weight and are of less consequence. We aren't emotional equals. This is what I experienced in my marriage and has definitely influenced my way of thinking. Some things take more time to deprogram after a 12 year relationship.
Sure....having someone disregard what you feel and want will make for a lot of unhappiness. While in relationships (even those that didn't last) I've always gone out of my way to consider what will make my partner happy....I'm still somewhat decisive and dominant in relationships. I've had women I've dated who I consider to themselves be pretty strong will tell me that they appreciate this kind of decisiveness. While someone being strongly directed in a way that disregards your happiness is a big negative....I think seeing someone be very strongly directed toward doing what makes you happy and making things a positive experience for you can feel very good.
 
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shoopthedoop is offline shoopthedoop Post #185  October 22,2009, 9:48am
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Benevolence32 wrote :
I don't see why it would matter. When I'm asked that question on EH I just choose the answer that says I'd like my partner and I to define the roles on our own. Usually I make up my own answer but that's one of the few questions where I don't. All the successful couples I know currently simply split the chores in some way I don't see them arguing over specific tasks.
I would always answer that question the same way.

This is the first time I have truly analyzed the question. Seems like the only way to go. I have never asked that question because I don't really care too much about it.

If someone would apply the gender role to being the bread winner in the situation that would be easy enough to figure out by other means.
 
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alissag is offline alissag Post #186  October 22,2009, 9:49am
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bigfincat wrote :
I don't know. It seems that your ex-husband was insecure & needed to feel dominant over you to compensate for that.

I think that you said it well that there is a spectrum & you probably need to find someone that is at a diiferent point in that line.

It sounds like you would give & he would take & take advantage. I can usually spot that type of personality...especially in a guy. It is usually easier to recognize things in your own gender unfortunately.

Recognizing certain insecurities & controlling attitudes would be helpful in your situation.
I have no problem recognizing this type of personality and staying far away from it.

There were many contributing factors to it all. My marriage situation was different, over 12 years it evolved into the controlling, take, take. As I stated earlier in the thread, this didn't rear it's ugly head until I quit work to stay home with the kids, 5 years into the marriage.
 
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pamcam is offline pamcam Post #187  October 22,2009, 10:21am
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My worry with having completely traditional external gender roles is that it will filter down and affect the internal roles. The man is the dominant one, decision maker, and all of my feelings, opinions etc. carry less weight and are of less consequence. We aren't emotional equals.

When we change our thoughts and question false beliefs (even just one and begin to dismantle and reconstruct them), we change and so too does our reality. Gender does not matter. Your feelings and thoughts are your own...to own...and are valid. Empowering to make your own decisions and own those too; to allow others to make our decisions is to live dependently and is most disempowering. Gender does not have this power; individually we do, if we choose to give some THING such as 'gender' power, so I disagree that 'the man is the dominant one, decision maker, and that any woman's thoughts and feelings are LESS anything.
Last edited by pamcam; October 22,2009 at 10:27am.
 
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alissag is offline alissag Post #188  October 22,2009, 10:37am
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pamcam wrote :
My worry with having completely traditional external gender roles is that it will filter down and affect the internal roles. The man is the dominant one, decision maker, and all of my feelings, opinions etc. carry less weight and are of less consequence. We aren't emotional equals.

When we change our thoughts and question false beliefs (even just one and begin to dismantle and reconstruct them), we change and so too does our reality. Gender does not matter. Your feelings and thoughts are your own...to own...and are valid. Empowering to make your own decisions and own those too; to allow others to make our decisions is to live dependently and is most disempowering. Gender does not have this power; individually we do, if we choose to give some THING such as 'gender' power, so I disagree that 'the man is the dominant one, decision maker, and that any woman's thoughts and feelings are LESS anything.
No no no, you are not understanding me. Or,
maybe I'm just not communicating well.

No one controls or changes my thoughts, feelings, desires or decisions. The external stuff didn't filter down and affect MY internal roles, they affected HIS. I have always and will always hold my own feelings, desires, opinions and decisions. But, when a partner starts to view his as right and yours as wrong or invalid, it's not a healthy relationship. That is where the internal shift happened, on HIS part, mine never wavered.
 
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pamcam is offline pamcam Post #189  October 22,2009, 10:55am
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I agree that it does take much deprogramming and reprogramming.

There is also viewpoint, perspective, and perception; I can't discern another's view, internal shift, or inner experiencing; I can listen to another share, relate, reveal, and communicate 'this' to me and I can observe another's actions and whether his actions demonstrate his viewpoint, even as there is no "right or wrong;" there is only what is.
 
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SierraMountainAir is offline SierraMountainAir Post #190  October 22,2009, 10:59am
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alissag wrote :

I have no problem with traditional gender roles in a relationship as long as they still see each others as equals and partners. Some people are steadfast in their perceptions of gender roles (I'm speaking in terms of both "chore" responsibilities and emotional) For others, however, those roles will be molded and have a different definition depending on the person they are with.

I always took out the garbage.


*ALWAYS!!!*
 
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