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clearlyoblique clearlyoblique is offline
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D_Lion wrote :
Did you check her feet?
DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
So you've never seen or worked with or experienced the dynamics of a 12-step program? They're based on people helping each other heal and supporting each other.
Never been in one. I hear good things about them. But don't the people involved really insist on personal responsibility? The people in the group don't make the person better, right? The person shares and supports and collectively they get better ... but isn't it because each person takes responsibility for himself?
DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
Didn't worry about that, she's not close enough to me for me to ask her to tango, so that's really not an issue.
I might say no to Tango ... but I would have smiled in your direction when I heard the first rumba number. Would you have taken the bait?
Last edited by clearlyoblique; October 11th, 2009 at 07:15 pm. Reason: clarity on the first point -
- October 11th, 2009, 07:06 pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Good catch, DofA, I missed this one.

It is easy to see how a person can come to either conclusion from experience.

Many pasts which lead to a need to “heal” will get better on their own, with or without any outside actions. Thus a partner present with such a person at that time can come to think their presence contributed.

By the same logic, if the “baggage” of the past issue did not improve, the partner comes to think it is a mistake to get involved with persons with baggage.

In either case, it is random chance which one your partner was.
I think it's wonderful to get emotional support from someone. But the person with the issue has to be the one that does the work. Therefore: the individual heals himself.
- October 11th, 2009, 07:13 pm
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nightling wrote :
hmm that post was modded out. I'll try again.

There ain't no one on the planet without baggage. If you've lived at all, you've been somewhere and done something that has left its mark.

The real question is can you put up with each other's baggage? The only way to answer that is to take that risk and give yourselves some time to figure it out.

Good luck.
I was just thinking about this -- then extending it a little. What's the line between wisdom, experience, and baggage? Suppose I've dated someone in, say, the Religious Consciousness Church and found that the church is recognized by experts as a cult, who's primary purpose is to get members to recruit new members and convince them they need to tithe 50% of their income and regularly prove the strength of their beliefs through self-flagellation and to only have sex when the moon is new and it is sanctified by their High Doleman. I've learned their beliefs are not only contrary to a lot of mine, but that even those on the fringe of this church are gradually brainwashed.

So I meet a woman that seems pretty close to what I want -- then find out she's in the Religious Consciousness Church. Is it wisdom, experience, or baggage when I emotionally step back from her, find out she's a serious believer, and run like heck in the other direction?
- October 11th, 2009, 07:16 pm
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That’s wisdom.

“Recognized by experts” informed a fair personal disagreement with their practices. No baggage.

It’s like reading the reviews on a restaurant in Sunday’s paper and deciding not to go. Totally different idea than being afraid of pork chops because you got sick as a kid.
- October 11th, 2009, 07:22 pm
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Yup. Wisdom
- October 11th, 2009, 07:25 pm
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clearlyoblique wrote :
Never been in one. I hear good things about them. But don't the people involved really insist on personal responsibility? The people in the group don't make the person better, right? The person shares and supports and collectively they get better ... but isn't it because each person takes responsibility for himself?
Yes, and that's where there's the fine line I was talking about exists (although I didn't use the term "fine line"). Each person takes responsibility for their own self, but the healing does not happen without the support of others. It's the interaction between each other, in that supportive environment that leads to healing. I saw a close relative go through one, as well as seeing people go through them when I taught in treatment. While each person works on themselves, they also work with each other (including making sure they don't become co-dependent!). I've seen a lot of healing from people helping each other in 12 steps that likely wouldn't have happened otherwise. It creates unique and strong communities.

clearlyoblique wrote :
I might say no to Tango ... but I would have smiled in your direction when I heard the first rumba number. Would you have taken the bait?
No to tango?

Sorry, let me get back up off the floor and cope with that.

Yeah, rumba is good. My instructor and I will be doing a rumba showcase number soon to Elvis Presley's "It's Now or Never." It's based, in part, on some of my experiences on eHarmony. When it starts, I'll be pretending to knock on her door with a boquet of flowers in front of my face. When she opens the door, I give her flowers and suddenly you see me with pimples, buck teeth, nerd glasses, and whatever else I can wear to look goofy. Throughout the entire rumba number (remember, to "It's Now or Never") I keep trying to get close to her and she's running from me.

Or we might do it the other way around, with her looking goofy. We're not sure. We have to figure out which way is funnier.

How about cha-cha or foxtrot or waltz?
- October 11th, 2009, 07:26 pm
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So if I'm a liberal and find my date is conservative, is finding an excuse to leave early and end it wisdom, experience or baggage?

When is backing off from someone because of something like that wisdom, when is it baggage?
- October 11th, 2009, 07:28 pm
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I good at cha cha until I have to turn around and he follows me ... for some reason I care not to think about too much ... this unsettles me. Then I go in the wrong direction after the twirl. I'm mildly dyslexic ... so I guess I could try to blame it on that.

I like silver foxtrot but hate the bronze.

No great surprise, I need a strong lead.

*sigh*
- October 11th, 2009, 07:33 pm
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DreamingOfAtlantis wrote :
So if I'm a liberal and find my date is conservative, is finding an excuse to leave early and end it wisdom, experience or baggage?

When is backing off from someone because of something like that wisdom, when is it baggage?
It's neither. It's narrow.

I often disagree with people I like. I have kissed conservatives and liberals. They do taste similar ... similar ... yeah ...
Last edited by clearlyoblique; October 11th, 2009 at 07:45 pm. Reason: spelling beeeeeees
- October 11th, 2009, 07:35 pm
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I see it as baggage when you make a factually-incorrect presumption about a current partner, due to an attribute of the current partner which mimics one or more past partners, but does not in fact support the presumption.

Preferring someone of a given political or theological persuasion is simply taste, not baggage (it’s not wisdom, either.)

I would call it experience, if you have found that you are an avid hunter and all your matches who expressed strong pro-animal-rights opinion in their profiles proved not to be compatible, and you decided not to spend effort on such matches any longer. Experience is morally-benign incorporation of factual data to drive optimized processes.
Last edited by D_Lion; October 11th, 2009 at 07:45 pm.
- October 11th, 2009, 07:43 pm
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