Fogiveness...what's That all about?


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tumbleweed is offline tumbleweed Post #81  September 6,2009, 6:23am
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true forgivness is from the hart,, it has no condition and asks for nothing in return anything else is selfishness,,
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #82  September 6,2009, 7:51am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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tumbleweed wrote :
true forgivness is from the hart,, it has no condition and asks for nothing in return anything else is selfishness,,
I'm selfish....and don't mind admitting it.
 
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sheera007 is offline sheera007 Post #83  September 6,2009, 8:49am
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tumbleweed wrote :
true forgivness is from the hart,, it has no condition and asks for nothing in return. anything else is selfishness,,
Hi tumbleweed,
I'm guessing this comment may have been inspired by my post... considering I stated some "conditions".

Forgiving someone only if they are genuinely sorry may (or may not) be selfish. Generally, if someone is not remorseful/repentant, they feel no need to be forgiven.
I really see no point in forgiving someone who doesn't even want/need my forgiveness. I'd rather just distance myself. I don't need people like that in my life.

Someone who is truly sorry... and truly wants to make ammends... and truly wants my forgiveness... they've got it. Call these "conditions" selfish if you like but...

...But nobody knows my heart, or the depth & genuineness of the forgiveness in my heart. Nobody can judge whether it is "true forgiveness". Well, you can. Be my guest. But that doesn't make it a correct assessment. It only makes it your opinion.

I don't forgive half-way. Just because I decide who/what warrants my forgiveness, doesn't mean that I'm incapable of genuine forgiveness.

As for "selfishness"...
I've seen post after post, commenting that a person forgives someone for her own benefit... not for the benefit of the offender. That it is for her own needs, so that she can heal. Sounds rather self-serving to me.
Last edited by sheera007; September 6,2009 at 9:10am.
 
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tumbleweed is offline tumbleweed Post #84  September 6,2009, 9:45am
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sheera007 wrote :
Hi tumbleweed,
I'm guessing this comment may have been inspired by my post... considering I stated some "conditions".

Forgiving someone only if they are genuinely sorry may (or may not) be selfish. Generally, if someone is not remorseful/repentant, they feel no need to be forgiven.
I really see no point in forgiving someone who doesn't even want/need my forgiveness. I'd rather just distance myself. I don't need people like that in my life.

Someone who is truly sorry... and truly wants to make ammends... and truly wants my forgiveness... they've got it. Call these "conditions" selfish if you like but...

...But nobody knows my heart, or the depth & genuineness of the forgiveness in my heart. Nobody can judge whether it is "true forgiveness". Well, you can. Be my guest. But that doesn't make it a correct assessment. It only makes it your opinion.

I don't forgive half-way. Just because I decide who/what warrants my forgiveness, doesn't mean that I'm incapable of genuine forgiveness.

As for "selfishness"...
I've seen post after post, commenting that a person forgives someone for her own benefit... not for the benefit of the offender. That it is for her own needs, so that she can heal. Sounds rather self-serving to me.
sorry if you tock this as coming from your post, not trying to afend anyone here but i do have to stand behind my beliefs,, jesas said i forgave you befor you evan asked,, he also said ,, father forgive them for what thay are about to do as they know not what they are doing,,,you see jesas is the tru fogiver as through him is the understanding and gorgiveness it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven, this was the power given to hin by god,,,, so who am i ,just a poor sinner to hold back my fogivness at a price when i in return only have to ask and i will recieve it,,these arent my words but the words of god as i understand them ,,may the glory be his "" GOD'"
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #85  September 6,2009, 9:50am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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tumbleweed wrote :
sorry if you tock this as coming from your post, not trying to afend anyone here but i do have to stand behind my beliefs,, jesas said i forgave you befor you evan asked,, he also said ,, father forgive them for what thay are about to do as they know not what they are doing,,,you see jesas is the tru fogiver as through him is the understanding and gorgiveness it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven, this was the power given to hin by god,,,, so who am i ,just a poor sinner to hold back my fogivness at a price when i in return only have to ask and i will recieve it,,these arent my words but the words of god as i understand them ,,may the glory be his "" GOD'"
So....at what point do you blow them away with that gun in your profile photo?
 
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tumbleweed is offline tumbleweed Post #86  September 6,2009, 9:50am
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jayjay wrote :
I'm selfish....and don't mind admitting it.
when you are in need i wont pass you by, tumbleweed
 
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tumbleweed is offline tumbleweed Post #87  September 6,2009, 10:14am
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jayjay wrote :
So....at what point do you blow them away with that gun in your profile photo?
now you are making acusations on what i do with my guns,,i forgive you for this as you truly dont understand me but would rather play games and accuse me of things,,, by the way ,, that gun as you call it is an AK47 one of the best guns ever made and the most sold gun in the world,, it fires a7.62x39mm bullet and has a detachable magazine that holds 20 rounds,,,vary efective for self defence as its small lightweight and easy to use,,, but if as you put it [blow someone away]if i had to defend myself to that exstent id use my remington 870 with 00 buck shot in 3inch magnum, all you have to do with it is be close,,,so far ive only had to do that once,,,tumbleweed
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #88  September 6,2009, 10:40am
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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tumbleweed wrote :
now you are making acusations on what i do with my guns,,i forgive you for this as you truly dont understand me but would rather play games and accuse me of things,,, by the way ,, that gun as you call it is an AK47 one of the best guns ever made and the most sold gun in the world,, it fires a7.62x39mm bullet and has a detachable magazine that holds 20 rounds,,,vary efective for self defence as its small lightweight and easy to use,,, but if as you put it [blow someone away]if i had to defend myself to that exstent id use my remington 870 with 00 buck shot in 3inch magnum, all you have to do with it is be close,,,so far ive only had to do that once,,,tumbleweed
OK....so you're very forgiving....but no sense of humor. Since you like quoting him...do you think Jesas would defend himself with these?
 
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sheera007 is offline sheera007 Post #89  September 6,2009, 10:58am
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tumbleweed wrote :
sorry if you tock this as coming from your post, not trying to afend anyone here
No apology necessary. I was not offended by your words. I simply do not agree with them. Even if your words were not inspired by my post, specifically, the point remains the same.

tumbleweed wrote :
but i do have to stand behind my beliefs,, jesas said i forgave you befor you evan asked,, he also said ,, father forgive them for what thay are about to do as they know not what they are doing,,,you see jesas is the tru fogiver as through him is the understanding and gorgiveness it takes to enter the kingdom of heaven, this was the power given to hin by god,,,, so who am i ,just a poor sinner to hold back my fogivness at a price when i in return only have to ask and i will recieve it,,these arent my words but the words of god as i understand them ,,may the glory be his "" GOD'"
And it is your right to stand by your beliefs. That doesn't make you any more right or wrong than I am, for my beliefs.

It is also my understanding that to enter the "kingdom of heaven" that the sinner must not simply ask for forgiveness, but must also be "repentant". Those who are not repentant will be bannished. By that example, why am I not allowed to bannish someone from my life, from my time, from my thoughts?

The Bible was written by man... not by God. We each interpret the teachings of the bible differently. That doesn't make any one group of believers to be better Christians than others.

I find it rather arrogant of some Christians to think that their relationship with God is better than that of other Christians. That is not directed at you - its just something I've noticed over the years, among many.

Some of the kindest, most loving, caring, giving, thoughtful people I've ever known aren't even Christians.
 
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simplemind is offline simplemind Post #90  September 6,2009, 11:04am
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Gentlemen, I like you both immensely. Whenever I see your names on a threadline, I watch for it because you each have something to say I can respect. That said...

Tumbleweed, sometimes online the emotional meaning is lost in the black and white of print. Reading jayjay's first post twice, both times I saw him trying to make a joke. We do that sometimes when things get heavy, and this thread was getting heavy. I am sorry his humor hit two very clearly precious places for you. But one thing I do believe was taught was tolerance--and that means not just for people who believe what one believes ones' self, true?

jayjay, the first was funny. I think tumbleweed got hit in a tender spot and that's just my two cents. Sometimes, it's hard to make light of the things most sacred to us. Those are the times I have to poke fun at myself--seems mebbe you do that, too. But doesn't work for everyone...and so the second shot wasn't funny. I think the posts and the contributions you make to this thread are awesome--but this last one doesn't reflect the thoughtful person I am coming to know.

I genuinely don't mean to offend either of you, but just some honest feedback--which you, jayjay, were kind enough to offer me when I was a newbie (and maybe a whole lot more gracefully than I'm doing now).

Ironic, on a forgiveness thread? Or just real life?
Last edited by simplemind; September 6,2009 at 11:07am.
 
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