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cp30 cp30 is offline
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Jacquiem wrote :
I think if you're lied to from the beginning, and you end it when you find out, you can claim innocent victim status. But even if a person ignores signs along the way that the wrongdoer had issues, the person who actively and intentionally decieves and hurts another person has neither right nor reason to forgive the person they hurt. What would the wrongdoer be forgiving the other person for, taking a chance and not wanting to believe the worst about them? "I forgive you for sticking with me and not wanting to believe I'm the jerk I actually am?"

Maybe the hurt person can be scolded for willfully ignoring obvious signs and making bad decisions, or if someone else, like children were hurt because of the person's bad decisions, but I don't see people needing forgiveness for being intentionally hurt by someone.
well said! I believe in personal responsibility but there comes a point where blaming the victim is futile and only hurts the victim, and does nothing at all good for anyone invovled. Sometimes realizing you were a victim is more freeing than anything, and it can be just as hard to do for people who are so used to believing they are to blame for everything.

the thing is, often, victims do take responsibility...for everything. And that makes the situation worse. Learning to realize you were wronged, requires realizing you were also victimized, and only then can you take your power back.
- September 3rd, 2009, 10:35 pm
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♥•♥~forgiveness is a matter of forgetting totally the things that someone did on you which cause you so much pain.. in forgiving s0meone, l0ve is one of the important factor that is really involve.. One way to forgive, is to forget one's pride and follow the desire of your heart and that is to forgive your l0ve.. Love makes the world g0 r0und, thus, we you have hurt some0ne, or if some0ne has hurt y0u, learn to f0rgive and f0rget everything that has been done~♥•♥
- September 3rd, 2009, 10:57 pm
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jayjay wrote :
What I mean is, while yes one person may be lying to their partner....that partner is seldom an innocent saintly victim. I think that usually in these relationships there are things like nastiness, passive-aggression, vindictiveness etc. that go on from both sides. But...it's easy for people to come to this site and give their side of the story that makes them look like the innocent saint. I'm just sayin.
"Usually"? I wouldn't go so far as to say "usually". Sure, there are relationships where both parties act like idiots.

But there are also relationships where the mistreatment/disrespect is very one-sided. Or the caring/respect is very one-sided. Why the caring person stays with the uncaring person is beyond me (that's another whole thread) but no, sorry - it is not "usually" a case of mutual nastiness. That occurs in some relationships, sure. But "usually"? C'mon jayjay.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:01 pm
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sheera007 wrote :
"Usually"? I wouldn't go so far as to say "usually". Sure, there are relationships where both parties act like idiots.

But there are also relationships where the mistreatment/disrespect is very one-sided. Or the caring/respect is very one-sided. Why the caring person stays with the uncaring person is beyond me (that's another whole thread) but no, sorry - it is not "usually" a case of mutual nastiness. That occurs in some relationships, sure. But "usually"? C'mon jayjay.
Well....I will grant you this. There probably is one party in the relationship who would like to think the problems were all with the other person.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:05 pm
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Jacquiem wrote :
Mmmm, simplemind, sometimes I have to forgive over and over again. That's what makes it so hard for me! ...
And a few times a week I had to sit in my car and wait until I went in that gym, knowing he was in there, until the desire to walk up to him and kick him in the shin passed. I don't just start to forgive, I have to KEEP forgiving, until I'M healed and can look at the person without malice in my heart for them.

Wish I had a more concrete answer for you, but that's the best I've got!
It's a pretty darn good answer, Jacquiem! thanks.

"~Forgiveness doesn't really benefit the other person as much as it benefits you. It frees you from the things that will hold you back from moving forward. It is not necessarily the words as much as the intention that you make in your heart."

I was starting to react to the word "selfish" in your post, and then saw where you were going. PR_Princess, this is beautifully put. "Frees you" came home to me, especially.
Last edited by simplemind; September 3rd, 2009 at 11:18 pm.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:14 pm
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jayjay wrote :
Well....I will grant you this. There probably is one party in the relationship who would like to think the problems were all with the other person.
Seriously. You really believe that, in all/most problematic relationships, that both parties contribute equally to the problems/deterioration?

You don't know any problem-couples wherein one party contributes, to the deterioration, a heIIuva lot more than the other? And no, I don't mean those couples, in which you only know one of the persons, and only hear one side of the story. I mean couples wherein you know both parties very well.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:16 pm
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jayjay wrote :
Maybe that 'let go' is what I'm thinking of. Just moving on with your life. No need for a big production to 'forgive' someone. Just leave it in the past.
So jayjay, you're not telling me that you haven't ever felt the need or desire to forgive someone? Or is moving on part of that forgiveness process for you? That is, is the process for you simply walking away and not looking back?
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:21 pm
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simplemind wrote :
It's a pretty darn good answer, Jacquiem! thanks.

"~Forgiveness doesn't really benefit the other person as much as it benefits you. It frees you from the things that will hold you back from moving forward. It is not necessarily the words as much as the intention that you make in your heart."
Sometimes. I think that depends on whether a person wants/needs to be forgiven. I know that, when I've done something to hurt someone... really hurt someone... that I have been genuinely sorry. Soooooo sorry. In fact, it rips me to the core, to know that I have caused someone so much hurt. And I have really really needed their forgiveness.

With time and experience, I have learned to be more careful/aware of others' feelings... and of the things I do/say. I don't find myself feeling the need for forgiveness, as often as I used to... or for such ridiculously inconsiderate things, as I used to. But I have definitely needed forgiveness.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:30 pm
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simplemind wrote :
So jayjay, you're not telling me that you haven't ever felt the need or desire to forgive someone? Or is moving on part of that forgiveness process for you? That is, is the process for you simply walking away and not looking back?
The word 'forgive' seems kind of vague and airy to me. What I'd say is I don't have a 'forgiveness process'....I have a 'moving past' process. For example....I don't harbor any anger towards my ex, but I wouldn't really say I have 'forgiven' her. It's just that she no longer occupies a place within me emotionally that I need to forgive her.

For me it isn't a matter of just deciding or trying to 'walk away and not look back'...that sounds like something that wouldn't be real. Rather, at a certain point in time there is just no longer any need or desire to look back.
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:40 pm
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I think that forgiveness means letting go of resentments:

Melody Beattie writes, "Resentments dry up our hearts. They sabotage our happiness. They can sabotage love..."

It takes time to 'process' a disappointment or a betrayal, but holding on too long only hurts the victim. I think that forgiveness is what allows us to let go. It's what allows us to move on.
Last edited by lacedwithhope; September 3rd, 2009 at 11:44 pm. Reason: "The Language of Letting Go"
- September 3rd, 2009, 11:43 pm
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