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Nanette's Avatar

Nanette is tired of reading about ancient civilizations so here i am!

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LizziePooh wrote :
And not fair since the Christian first needs to prove that they can even join the discussion while you get the benefit of assumption that you have thought more on this just based on your beliefs??? I never got that logic.
.

and the other part of it is that most of what he (i'm relatively sure) espouses as his belief is aligned at least somewhat with what is taught in most secular universities. so if you want to call yourself a *free thinker* that also requires that you question the things that are most universally fed to the masses, where again, in terms of belief, i would bet he fits in quite nicely.

i get way too heated up when i *discuss* things with people.
- August 22nd, 2009, 01:42 pm
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I think that there is a large difference of opinion as to what an acceptable level of self-centeredness is.

I think that level should be pretty low when trying to include people closely into your lives.
- August 22nd, 2009, 01:47 pm
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Nanette wrote :
and the other part of it is that most of what he (i'm relatively sure) espouses as his belief is aligned at least somewhat with what is taught in most secular universities. so if you want to call yourself a *free thinker* that also requires that you question the things that are most universally fed to the masses, where again, in terms of belief, i would bet he fits in quite nicely.

i get way too heated up when i *discuss* things with people.
Ahhh, but are you guilty of automatically assuming he espouses his ideals just because they were learned in university??

(university being used as a generic term for the securalists "religious" places.)
- August 22nd, 2009, 01:50 pm
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Nanette is tired of reading about ancient civilizations so here i am!

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LizziePooh wrote :
Ahhh, but are you guilty of automatically assuming he espouses his ideals just because they were learned in university??

(university being used as a generic term for the securalists "religious" places.)
yes

he wasnt completely incorrect in his assumption. i know of many professing Christians that have no idea why they believe what they believe. i was very annoyed at his arrogance about it. maybe because i am arrogant sometimes in my belief. God, could i even be an elitist? this is why i like to debate with people that wont agree with me ha ha!!
- August 22nd, 2009, 02:03 pm
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Nanette wrote :
yes

he wasnt completely incorrect in his assumption. i know of many professing Christians that have no idea why they believe what they believe. i was very annoyed at his arrogance about it. maybe because i am arrogant sometimes in my belief. God, could i even be an elitist? this is why i like to debate with people that wont agree with me ha ha!!
Too cute!!!

The 11th Commandment..

Thou shalt....always seek clarity in debating .

He! He! What can I say?? We are all sinners!!

Last edited by LizziePooh; August 22nd, 2009 at 02:09 pm. Reason: off to a party - enjoy the day everyone!!! :)
- August 22nd, 2009, 02:07 pm
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Mainah64 is gonna take his mini van to the dragstrip in the spring

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gothustartus wrote :
I don't know if i'd call it pop psychology since by definition it would have to be popular and my opinions in this area generally aren't, or at least they aren't in certain areas of the world.

Sorry but if a guy can't buck the cultural stereotypes and expectations then he's a sheep. He may be perfectly happy in the middle of the flock and if he is then good luck to him, but following the "rules" and allowing those stereotypes and expectations to define him is entirely voluntary, even if only by apathy, if you chose to follow them then you can't really complain about how they mess you up.
Yes there is a huge amount of social pressure to conform, to be a good little Stepford drone and follow the plan,

I had a fantastic discussion with a US marine at a christmas party in Oxford years ago on this very subject, being raised with certain attitudes and accepting them without ever thinking about them. Ok i'll admit i was pretty sarcastic with the guy but the attitude that they were his fathers opinions and his fathers before that was more than a little baiting, the assumption that it was somehow wrong to question, that all he need ever do is read his newspapers editorial to see what he thinks on a given subject.
I don't need to be told what is moral, i don't need commandments, i've arrived at my own views on morality through years of thought on the subject, i do what i think is right because i think it is right, not because some book says "Thou shalt not..."
You're not giving yourself enough credit on popularity. I'd say your opinions may fit in well with many members of the PC system regardless of location.

Calling men (women too?) that can't snap their fingers and change how they were raised and expectations to comply with the narrow cultural expectations of them as sheep and drones is too simplistic, idealistic and narrow minded, whether it was a conservative, liberal, or moderate upbringing. Its not like a bad habit of smoking, eating junk food etc. You're talking about major reprogramming and changing alot of what they were taught was right, how to behave, and what to aspire to.

Regarding the discussion with the Marine, I find it admirable that people value, respect, and adhere to certain moral, ethical and religious views of their elders. While many really do question these beliefs and adjust some of it, many people have the inner strength to not feel like they have to totally discard these generational ways in order to fit in with the current, and fading, PC culture. I find that some that put down or even ridicule people with tried and true belief systems are themselves a bit envious of the strength and conviction it takes to stand against societal pressures and pop culture. Openmindedness should work both ways.

We do need to be taught morals and ethics as we don't come programmed with them at birth. Many in this era aren't taught well and arrive with a lack of this personal code and we see how this manifests itself in societies' problems. To say we did it on our own is arrogant. Someone somewhere taught us.

From your posts I can imagine how tempting a target a military person with a strong personal code was. And yes, I do find your posts to be elitist.
- August 22nd, 2009, 03:37 pm
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Been reading this thread with interest.

At first, I thought, "Geez, these people are getting way off topic--do they need to start a new thread?"

Continuing to read, I realized: no, not at all.

The OP was about a seemingly ordinary person, exposed to the filters and attendant actions of individuals who are so far beyond the "norm" that most would agree their actions are wrong--if not outright terrifying and antisocial.

And comes then the decision of "ordinary person" to alter her actions to protect herself.

Which has a tumbledown effect upon the very normal and very desirable men who read of her experience and her conclusion.

And then this is filtered yet again--to the point of labels applied, morals questioned and morals established. Courage of one's convictions, courage to respect tradition....

The journey for each of us is different: rooted in our genes, fed by our personal development, altered by our cultural experience, and altered yet again by personal conclusions drawn from experience. And with each layer of experience, another set of filters is formed.

So what happens--what makes some of us adhere to the "norm", some of us buck the system (but only just enough), and some veer so far to the side as to become "psychotic stalkers"--without necessarily being mentally ill?
- August 22nd, 2009, 04:03 pm
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[quote=Nanette;717561]
gothustartus wrote :
uh, yeah. if we were talking about the same thing. i suppose this is true of your psycho fantasy relationship guy. which, incidentally, you describe remarkably well
I thought that's who we were talking about. I've known quite a few guys like that at one time or another, mainly on the net but one or two in real life. Some of them were decent normal blokes in all other respects, some were complete nightmares.
I did get a bit obsessed with a girlfriend myself once after we broke up, luckily i wasn't a psycho, it wasn't really about her at all, she was just the focus of a bad situation that messed up my head for a while until i managed to work my way through it. I think it did make me a bit more prone to seeing obsessive behaviour in other guys though, and thinking "There but for the grace of a lot of navel gazing goes i."
- August 23rd, 2009, 07:37 am
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simplemind wrote :
So what happens--what makes some of us adhere to the "norm", some of us buck the system (but only just enough), and some veer so far to the side as to become "psychotic stalkers"--without necessarily being mentally ill?
With me it's probably sheer bl*+dymindedness and obstinacy. Someone did once compare my tendency to buck the system with the "because it's there" rationale for climbing mountains.
- August 23rd, 2009, 07:43 am
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I would just let that cofirm for you that you've definitely closed out the right ones. And, I completely understand why you would prefer to "ignore" from now on.
- August 23rd, 2009, 07:50 am
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