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I was cheated on by my best friend and boyfriend of 3 years.  I won't bore you all with the details of how close and compatible we were but we were.  We laughed and learned and travelled together, cried and shared and opened up to one another.  I felt like he was my family after 3 years and could never had even considered cheating on him.  The classic signs started appearing, pulling away and not calling and being irritated with me and making claims of our relationship not being what it used to be.  I went into denial because..this couldn't happen to me and Matt would never do that.  Bottom line is that Matt did do that, with a 22 year old co-worker of mine. It hit me with the force of an A-bomb. A year later after I had healed Matt called...he missed me and realized he had made a mistake and realized what he had lost...he thought of me everyday.  I didn't feel joy or elation just sadness.  My pride wouldn't allow me to go back or forgive.  Everytime I thought it was possible I would feel this shame come over me....what was wrong with me?  Had I forgotten how he had shamelessly hurt me with no remorse? Had I forgotten how I sobbed into my pillow til it was wet with tears?  Had I forgotten how I had walked around like a gray faced living dead person for months?  Had I forgotten the headaches and nausea and stomache pains and problems the stress and sadness had created?  There was a part of me that did want to forget and forgive because i could still remember the good times.  Matt had tainted himself, connected himself to such bad and painful memories inside of me that it was impossible.  A second chance was a no go.   I could never erase the sobering thought that at one point in time he had consciously made the decision to hurt me and disregard out relationship...had no compassion or loyalty or honor or kindness....I don't think a person like this changes.

- July 31st, 2009, 04:27 pm
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bigsky67 was your post just a comment or did you have a question.

My opinion of cheaters is once a cheater always a cheater. If that helps.
- July 31st, 2009, 06:21 pm
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How will you feel if you keep this person and he does it again?

If you'd blame yourself, then I'd say look for a new partner.

As always, a new partner may just be the same pattern again, so that is never really a cure for a relationship problem.
- July 31st, 2009, 06:53 pm
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IcecreamMoon Nothing to see here at all...

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This is really not about whether people change or not. I, for one, wholeheartedly believe that people CAN change, IF they want to change and IF they are willing to put in the required effort to do so. just because someone made a few mistakes does not automatically mean that they will continue repeating the same mistakes for the rest of their lives. I'm a living proof of this, although my mistakes did not involve cheating on a partner - I cheated myself, mostly...

It is not easy to change, but it can be done - I have little doubt about that. I've changed myself and have also seen it happen in other people I know and love. Life is all about making mistakes, learning from them and becoming a better person as a result.

Forgiveness is key - if we can't forgive ourselves and others, we will never learn anything of value, other than how to punish ourselves, and others, for the rest of our lives - not a great way to live, as far as I'm concerned.

It is also important to realize that mistakes are behaviors, not causes, and they certainly do not define WHO we are as people. Even the best people make terrible mistakes based on unfounded beliefs or mistaken factua information, or past experiences, etc. The good news is that behaviors are usually quite easy to change once the underlying cause of that behavior is identified and alleviated in some way.

But the question here is not what I think, but what you think and feel. If you don't think you can get over his indiscretion, then don't torture yourself needslessly and move on with your life. No one is a judge in your case, not even you should assume that role in your own life. Be kind, loving and forgiving to yourself, first and foremost.

If you do feel there is a chance for you with this guy, then move VERY slowly and cautiously. He has to prove to you that he has changed and can be trusted. He has to explain to you why he behaved the way he did, and what he has done to remedy the cause of that cheating behavior.

The only way to do that is to give it time, observe his behaviour over time, and do a lot of talking (no accusations, blames, etc. just discussing thoughts and feelings as they are, without assigning them with qualitative judgements). Make sure you do not fall into a popular trap of assuming the worst the minute you are not certain of something. Even though it's natural for us to assume (our brain needs answers to all questions to stay in balance), you should ask for facts before jumping to any conclusions, or making life altering decisions on unsubstantiated assumptions.

Whatever you decide to do, do so because you WANT it and for no other reason. You don't owe your life to anyone but you and you alone. Choices you make in your personal life should only be driven by your desire for your own personal happiness and fulfillment. If you believe this guy can offer you that (an you can offer the same to him in return), then I'd say give it a chance. If not, then don't.

What "should" be done, according to someone else's norms and opinions, should be irrelevant to you in achieving your personal happiness.

Good Luck!
- July 31st, 2009, 07:52 pm
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Honestly, you would be wanting the old relationship back, and you can't have that. If you did get back together again, you both have changed, so the relationship would as well.

I'm all for "people make mistakes", but I think that's a pretty big one. You don't just look down and say "Wow, how did my pants get unzipped? And what is that woman doing down there?" You have some planning involved, even if it's only shutting the office door. You have to actively decide to do the wrong thing

Which brings up the other point. Cheating is bad enough. I agree with Gr8Guy, the ability to cheat is tied in to who people really are. But what bothers me even more is that he did it with one of your coworkers. It wasn't some stranger, it was someone you had to see on a daily basis. That's a whole 'nother level of disrespect.

I would be glad you found out before you were married. Go find someone you can trust that absolutely adores you.
- July 31st, 2009, 08:28 pm
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Second chances are sometimes in order, though considering the time that has gone by since you two dated I am not so sure I would try to get back together with him. Also the very fact that in this case the reason you two broke up is because he cheated on you and I am not saying that he would not cheat again but I imagine that if you did get back with him it would be very hard to trust him. I have ran into that problem with my ex after she told me that she cheated on me. While I didn't break up with her after it I had a hard time trusting her, when she recognized that it contributed to us breaking up.
- July 31st, 2009, 08:41 pm
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No, it was just a comment on second chances...sorry it was my first post...didn't know I was supposed to post a question...it was just a mind blurb on what I had going on relating to second chances. I'm glad i took the time to write it tho...it really helped me....thank you so much.
- July 31st, 2009, 10:37 pm
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IcecreamMoon wrote :
It is not easy to change, but it can be done - I have little doubt about that. I've changed myself and have also seen it happen in other people I know and love. Life is all about making mistakes, learning from them and becoming a better person as a result.
People can change, one of those lovely little evolutionary things that separates us from animals, but from talking to friends who have been cheated on and participating in more advice-lines than i care to count i've often found that the issue isn't change but trust and confidence in that trust and in yourself, your worth and your judgment.
You can force yourself to give the appearance of trust when someone has put your heart through the blender, try to forget it all and move on from there, fresh start, but somewhere, even if it is buried way deep, is that niggling little thought of "What if...?" that drops your whole self image into a black hole of self doubt and recrimination. "How could he do this to me? What's wrong with me that made him do it? What did i do wrong?"
Someone who has never cheated on you you can look at and say it'll never happen (unless you're neurotic and paranoid) but if someone has done it once already..? There will always be black moments in anyones life, pain is a part of learning, possibly the most powerful self motivator. But the possibility of getting stuck on the pain is always there, the temptation to constantly think "What will it take for them to do it again? What situation will they just be unable to pass up?" and worry at it like a hangnail, the temptation caused by fear to constantly shove it in the other persons face, to bring it up in every argument, to see just how far *you* have to push to drive him away and vindicate your fears.
When the innocence of the relationship has been destroyed it can be damn hard to come back from that, no matter how hard you work it'll never be the idyll that it was before, that bubble burst and there's no getting it back. Forgiveness can maybe let you build a new relationship on the ashes of the old, and yes, like the Phoenix it can be glorious, new understandings, new commitments, the relationship having passed through the fire is tempered, the bonds between you like steel.
But how many of us can reach that place?
Too often no matter how hard the cheater works to mend his (her) ways the cheated broods on the wrong done them. They have every right to do so because they were hurt and human beings lash out when they're hurt. But you have to work your way past the anger if you want to save anything, and no matter the intent that's not always possible.

Damn that was some long winded boo hickey.

Last edited by gothustartus; August 1st, 2009 at 12:48 am.
- August 1st, 2009, 12:45 am
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IcecreamMoon Nothing to see here at all...

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gothustartus wrote :
People can change, one of those lovely little evolutionary things that separates us from animals, but from talking to friends who have been cheated on and participating in more advice-lines than i care to count i've often found that the issue isn't change but trust and confidence in that trust and in yourself, your worth and your judgment.
You can force yourself to give the appearance of trust when someone has put your heart through the blender, try to forget it all and move on from there, fresh start, but somewhere, even if it is buried way deep, is that niggling little thought of "What if...?" that drops your whole self image into a black hole of self doubt and recrimination. "How could he do this to me? What's wrong with me that made him do it? What did i do wrong?"
Someone who has never cheated on you you can look at and say it'll never happen (unless you're neurotic and paranoid) but if someone has done it once already..? There will always be black moments in anyones life, pain is a part of learning, possibly the most powerful self motivator. But the possibility of getting stuck on the pain is always there, the temptation to constantly think "What will it take for them to do it again? What situation will they just be unable to pass up?" and worry at it like a hangnail, the temptation caused by fear to constantly shove it in the other persons face, to bring it up in every argument, to see just how far *you* have to push to drive him away and vindicate your fears.
When the innocence of the relationship has been destroyed it can be damn hard to come back from that, no matter how hard you work it'll never be the idyll that it was before, that bubble burst and there's no getting it back. Forgiveness can maybe let you build a new relationship on the ashes of the old, and yes, like the Phoenix it can be glorious, new understandings, new commitments, the relationship having passed through the fire is tempered, the bonds between you like steel.
But how many of us can reach that place?
Too often no matter how hard the cheater works to mend his (her) ways the cheated broods on the wrong done them. They have every right to do so because they were hurt and human beings lash out when they're hurt. But you have to work your way past the anger if you want to save anything, and no matter the intent that's not always possible.

Damn that was some long winded boo hickey.

I agree with you, on many levels

But having been trained in cognitive behavioral psychology - a science I greatly admire and strongly believe in - I view cheating as a symptom not a cause.

Most people in happy relationships do not go out and cheat on their partner just for the heck of it. Just like healthy people do not overeat to the point of purging 5 minutes later.

Both are unhealthy coping mechanisms. The cause is the main problem. And in most cases, by identifying and treating the cause, the resulted behavior is cured automatically.

This is not the case with addictions, eating disorders, etc, where both the cause and the symptom need to be treated, and the environment is also a concern. But nothing will ever be corrected if the cause is not identified or addressed. You can treat the behavior alone, but then another unhealthy coping mechanism will evolve for the purposes of dealing with the cause - it's a vicious cycle.

In cases of most relationships and cheating, unless there is a sex addiction involved (which is rare), I firmly believe that people, regardless of gender, cheat for one reason and one reason only - they are dissatisfied (on some level of personal needs) within the framework of their existing relationship. So, they try to satisfy their needs outside of their relationship. In most cases the needs are emotional (although sometimes they are also sexual or even intellectual).

But in our society today, intellectua needs are admired, sexual needs are acknowedged and even greatly exploited, but emotional needs are viewed as either personality weaknesses or even hysterical psychological disorders, which is a great shame and an even greater injustice to humanity.

In my opinion, most cheaters are motivated by a desire (sometimes conscious but in most cases subconscious) to get closer to another human being of the opposite sex (if heterosexual) by talking, flirting, having sex, etc.

The result is usually an overwhelming feeling of guilt brought into the already existing serious problems within that relationship, and so the cycle continues, and gets even worse. Unless and until someone is smart enough and brave enough to break that cycle and start talking instead of causing unlimited pain to oneself and the other.

Cheating is rarely the fault of only one partner, even if he/she is the only one who committed the indiscretion. It takes two to tango, form or destroy a relationship, in my personal view. Identifying the cause of cheating and dealing with it, is the only way to go, as far as I can see. Sometimes the two individuals involved can achieve that on their own, at other times expert counseling is required - a lot depends on the depth of the problem, as well as the two personalities involved.

I firmly believe that when both parties are committed to identifying and curing the cause of the cheating behavioral symptoms, the relationship can survive, IF that's what both of them want and are prepared to do the hard work. Life is certainly not a fairy tale, nothing is done by waiving a magic wand. It is all about hard work.

But this is the only way to move on and resolve the real problem, and also the only way to purchace an insurance policy against the same problem re-occuring in the future. Both partners need to learn new coping mechanisms if similar probems, which caused the original problem, arise in the future. Agreements need to be made and adhered to in order to re-develop trust. No relationship can ever survive without that little 5-letter word, regarless of looks, attraction, money, status, power, etc.

People, who are prepared to do the required hard work to identify causes and implement the required changes, learn from their mistakes and avoid making similar mistakes in the future, CAN and DO CHANGE.

Which is why I will never believe in "once a cheater (or whatever) always a cheater (or whatever)". This is only the case for the lazy and ignorant. Most of us are not. We WANT to be happy in our lives and are prepared to do the work to get there. But we lack the skills to identify the real cause(s) of our problems, which is why we are all here in the first place, or most of us, I believe - we are looking to find those causes, anywhere and eveywhere we can think of.

Hopefully, some of us can achieve this desirable outcome here.

Last edited by IcecreamMoon; August 1st, 2009 at 04:28 am.
- August 1st, 2009, 04:25 am
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Agree with these posts, get rid of him... What you had is gone because he broke all trust for his own pleasure with willing and total disregard for your feelings... He told you countless lies to facilitate his affair.
D_Lion wrote :
How will you feel if you keep this person and he does it again?

If you'd blame yourself, then I'd say look for a new partner.

As always, a new partner may just be the same pattern again, so that is never really a cure for a relationship problem.
Gr8Guyn2008 wrote :
bigsky67 was your post just a comment or did you have a question.

My opinion of cheaters is once a cheater always a cheater. If that helps.
- August 1st, 2009, 06:57 am
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