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Benevolence32 is not looking forward to shorter days and colder weather

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Ludiusvox wrote :
I dunno I find Beautiful, conceited, self-centered, high-maintenance, bossy women sexy. Maybe it just appeals to my competitive nature: I actually enjoy the arguments, disagreements, and contests of will; its entertaining and much for fun than a pushover or a wannabe.
If she wasn't beautiful I doubt you would put up with the latter 4 traits for very long.
- July 23rd, 2009, 10:19 am
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If she wasn't beautiful I doubt you would put up with the latter 4 traits for very long.
true enough.

FWIW, those traits don't really translate to "independent" though.
- July 23rd, 2009, 11:03 am
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Read my posts carefully. I never said I was attracted to dependent women. All I am saying is that dependent women can have some traits that are initially attractive to men in the short term.

And, yes, the only women I can attract it seems are golddiggers only interested in my status and money. But I already have analyzed this and determined that my obesity is keeping me from attracting independent women.

And I am working on it. I think once I get closer to my ideal body weight, I will have more bait to attract the independent women. It wont be perfect, but I think I will have more luck.
- July 24th, 2009, 12:36 am
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gtp wrote :
I was talking to my roommate about this very issue not too long ago. I think men overestimate the amount of effort a woman really expects or desires. I mean sure, who doesn't like being treated nicely or like royalty or whatever. But I don't think a good woman goes into a relationship expecting to be treated like a queen. At the very least most of us know that it's very lonely and confining being up on a pedestal. I think all she (or at least all I want) is to be treated equally and to be loved.

Guys (I know I'm generalizing!) seem to complain a lot about how hard it is to make their SO happy, but realistically I think it's the small things that make a woman incandescently happy, and a little goes a long way.

For instance, telling a woman you love her on a regular basis in and of itself makes her feel so good. If she's having a bad day and you just come up behind her and hug her and whisper that you love her in her ear that will go farther than any "royal treatment" that I can imagine. Or if you bring home flowers every so often just to show her you love her.

I think guys focus on the big gestures too much - holidays are great and all but it's the little things throughout the year that really show a woman you love her. My dad particularly suffers from this disorder - he'll buy my mom nice presents on holidays but once he does that he feels like his "obligations" for the year are done.

And maybe this is already sounding like a woman expects to be treated like a queen to some of you, but I think these little things just show a woman that you really care about her, and she'll respond by trying her very best to make you happy in return: cooking your favorite meals perhaps or planning little trips for you both or giving you a massage.

I guess what I'm ultimately trying to say is that I would do everything in my power to make the man I loved happy if all he would do is reciprocate and show a little affection himself.

Oh, and I know it's cheesy but Gregory Godek has published a number of books (titles like 1001 Ways to Be Romantic or to 10,000 Ways to Say I Love You), and as silly and outdated as many of them are, it's got quite a few great ideas for small things both partners can do to be romantic and show their SO that they love them.

I guess I just think that we all respond better through positive reinforcement and even the most secure person in the world will begin to wonder if you still love them if you take them for granted.
Actually on paper this sounds great.

I go out of my way these exact things for my SO.

But in reality, it seems like the so called "independent" women I have dated take it for granted and are emotionally unavailable.
- July 24th, 2009, 12:44 am
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I'm from the South, and here I think many men enjoy the idea of taking care of a woman. While my father has raised me to be able to take care of myself and wants me to be able to support myself incase I am ever left by a man, he becomes ill and can't work, or passes away. It is frustrating because ofcourse my dad wants me to be independent, but what about guys my age (22). My ex-boyfriend often told me I was too independent and he acted like he didn't like the fact that I could do things. He often told me he felt like I didn't need him. I'm still not sure how he wanted me to "need" him given he lived 6 hours away. Not like I could call him to help with my car or to change a light bulb. Anyways, it made me question whether or not guys want independent women and I'm still wondering. I think a lot of men want to take care of their girlfriend or significant other, and others love the idea of an independent woman. I want a man who is able to provide for me and wants to help me and take care of me but knows that I can make it on my own and am a strong woman. Hope those exist!!
- July 25th, 2009, 04:13 am
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And I completely agree BWR that little things are important, maybe the most important. I loved the most getting a surprise note in the mail or a drawing of something I would like (he was in art school). I always told him that I loved gifts that were made by people because it shows a lot more effort and thought verses buying something. While I also enjoy those gifts, little things, cards, handwritten notes (not just picking up a hallmark card and signing love xxx) really mattered.
- July 25th, 2009, 04:16 am
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sthngrlc wrote :
My ex-boyfriend often told me I was too independent and he acted like he didn't like the fact that I could do things. He often told me he felt like I didn't need him. I'm still not sure how he wanted me to "need" him given he lived 6 hours away. Not like I could call him to help with my car or to change a light bulb. Anyways, it made me question whether or not guys want independent women and I'm still wondering. I think a lot of men want to take care of their girlfriend or significant other, and others love the idea of an independent woman. I want a man who is able to provide for me and wants to help me and take care of me but knows that I can make it on my own and am a strong woman. Hope those exist!!
The sum of my thoughts on this at the moment are that guys who whine about their gf /wife being too independent are wussies. By complaining like this they show just how weak they are. When a guy is doing this....the relationship is probably doomed to unhappiness and/or failure.
- July 25th, 2009, 06:59 am
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jayjay wrote :
The sum of my thoughts on this at the moment are that guys who whine about their gf /wife being too independent are wussies. By complaining like this they show just how weak they are. When a guy is doing this....the relationship is probably doomed to unhappiness and/or failure.
I think the men who are intimidated by women are wussies, period. I totally agree the men who say they are "intimidated" by a woman's career or success are losers.

But if women don't share my core values or if they annoy the heck out of me, I run for the hills. I don't care how wonderful and great and independent they think they are.

In fact, I can't deal with women who don't have a job and can't support themselves. Where I always seem to get burned is I meet women who seemingly have it all together - a good career, own their own car, home, etc., and then they lose their job and turn out to have hidden debt issues/financially irresponsible, or they have crises after crises as time goes on. It turns out they are just golddigging hoping to latch onto a guy to take care of them financially or "rescue" them.

These women are very feminine and are very emotionally available and fun and attractive, but the fact they gradually become dependent on me and financially irresponsible with no ambition is too taxing and ends the relationship.

And then I meet women who are very independent and financially responsible, share my core values, etc., but they end up being very aloof and nit-picky/superficial. It seems like their expectations for a relationship are unrealistic and they want Mr. Perfect I could never be. It is like pulling teeth talking to them and they honestly bore me. It seems like many independent women I have met lack experience in basic interpersonal skills, which is really shocking to me because I would think they had great people skills by advancing in their careers, etc.

What really annoys me about some independent, successful women is they put little effort in learning about relationships and people. I, myself, am busting my tail trying to learn about dating, relationships, etc. I am out there trying online dating, going to happy hours, putting myself out there, reading message boards, books, etc. I am focused on improving myself to the max, losing weight, etc. I fully realize I am not perfect and have issues, but at least I am open-minded and always analyzing and trying to learn and improve myself, and I have come a long way.

The first 2 years I did online dating, I had a total of 1 date. The last 3 years, I have had 2 LTRs from online dating and am now avering 1 date a month and get 1-2 matches a week, and I am obese and nowhere near my best looking or fit self. So I must have done something right, and I will keep learning and improving. I mean, I know men who blow me away in looks and money, and they cant even get a date.

Yet the independent, good looking, financially independent women I meet online always seem to tell me "This is my first time trying online dating". They seem like they want instant results and don't want to put forth the effort to learn about relationships and people. Here I am putting in all this effort, and they don't even lift a finger and expect the guy to carry the load.

Or else I meet very sexy, attractive, fun women who end up being dependent golddiggers.

It seems like it's all about extremes. Why the heck can't I just meet someone in the middle - independent, financially stable, but also emotionally available, fun/easy to talk to, and has strong relationship values ?

Last edited by bwr; July 25th, 2009 at 09:49 am.
- July 25th, 2009, 09:44 am
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sthngrlc wrote :
And I completely agree BWR that little things are important, maybe the most important. I loved the most getting a surprise note in the mail or a drawing of something I would like (he was in art school). I always told him that I loved gifts that were made by people because it shows a lot more effort and thought verses buying something. While I also enjoy those gifts, little things, cards, handwritten notes (not just picking up a hallmark card and signing love xxx) really mattered.
I love doing the little things, but it seems like they are rarely appreciated by the women I am meeting lately. I am sick of carrying dates and relationships. All I read on these message boards are women complaing men never do the little thing, are not affectionate or romantic, yet in reality these women don't seem to exist
- July 25th, 2009, 09:53 am
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I for one chuckle to myself when I hear any woman declare herself independent. I know the categorization "independent" is popular and attractive to many women. The category is supposed to be of the elite sort of women. It is this attitude that causes some women to ask whether men are put off by independent women.

However, in my opinion, there are two categories of immature women: the dependent and the independent. I laugh at both these. The really mature woman, the one I respect from the very bottom of my heart, is the one that has progressed beyond being or even feeling independent to learning to be inter-dependent. The human society will always be so. No woman and no man should ever claim to be independent.

I looked up the meaning of the word "independent" and this is what I found: "not dependent; free; self-confident; unconstrained,
not subject to control by others; not requiring or relying on others (as for care or livelihood); not subordinate; rejecting others' aid or support; refusing to be under obligation to others." I submit that any person that espouses the above characteristics would be most obnoxious to live with in any society.

Dear fellow human beings, men and women, let us teach ourselves not to be independent and neither to be dependent, but to be interdependent. We need each other in order to work for the common good and to attempt to bring about a compassionate and just society in our communities. Those of us who are students of Jesus Christ, this is our mandate which we have neglected for years. We need to report back on duty--NOW!

Now to answer the question. No I for one am not put off by independent women. Rather, I look at them with amusement as I watch them wasting their energies pursuing the wrong path for women, a path that will in the ultimate not serve their interests nor those of society at large. When I see an independent woman, I leave the way for her to pass before she knocks down.

I should mention that I have daughters. To be sure I don't want those my daughters to grow up to be independent. For God's sake noooo!! I desire for them to learn to become interdependent with fellow women and with men in their communities.

I write this in love. I hope I didn't sound accusative or judgmental. I intend neither. I salute you all.
- July 31st, 2009, 05:48 pm
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