Scientific evidence ...maybe women REALLY don't care about status, and its okay to have.8 hip ratio.


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neardc is offline neardc Post #21  June 22,2009, 4:12pm
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Toodles, sayonara, and happy trails! Wishing everyone luck and love...

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cp30 wrote :
no, but I have peanut butter.

I'm still trying to figure out where my waist is.
LOL!
 
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cp30 is offline cp30 Post #22  June 22,2009, 4:20pm

has only threatened to give up

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neardc wrote :
LOL!
lol... I just can't decide if its the part right under ...well nevermind. I think I have a "high" waist! It all confuses me...but I'm a girl, I can't do math!

Anyway, another thing I question, maybe you have an educated opinion, I have an opinion that is more of a guess....in that it bothers me because it seems off....

Do you really believe that the currency of survival of the fittest is more offspring? Do you think that is really the measure or what drives men and women?

Why then would abortion be so popular? Why would men and women kill their own kids? Why would birth control and sex for sport be so popular?
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #23  June 22,2009, 4:25pm
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- Ladies want to wring my neck - you have been warned!

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To maximize the resources available to each child, their number is limited and their timing managed by the resource supply.
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #24  June 22,2009, 4:31pm
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Nothing to see here at all...

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neardc wrote :
For kicks, I just figured mine out and, the good news is that I am now encouraged to substantially expand the size of my hips! (Anyone have a donut?)
Care for some ice cream to go with it?
 
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Wootz is offline Wootz Post #25  June 22,2009, 4:35pm
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wants to be half as good as grandad was.

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cp30 wrote :
oh, please post it! I have a sneaking suspiscion that not everyone read the homework assingment. Would love to hear your thoughts!

It's up my alley too. It's not my area of study really (though I did major in sociology for awhile, it dropped to a minor later on). This has always interested me and the simplistic evolutionary psychology theories have always bugged me...but I never see scientific evidence against them much...plenty of religious or emotional, or other types of refutes, but rarely in the media do we see it from other scientists in the field.
Don’t say I didn’t warn you!

neardc wrote :
Great article that, by the way, totally supports what I've posted in many threads on these boards in response to posts of what are basically pseudoscientific explanations for human behavior or "preferences" that are based on retrospective conjecture much more than a deeper understanding of behavior, biology, genetics, and evolution and the interactions among them. People here frequently seem to want to use biology/genetics as a way to explain things that are in fact learned behaviors, often heavily influenced by cultural context.

Thanks for sharing the article. It's long, but I encourage everyone to read it (not that it will stop people from making unsupported evolution-based claims!).
+1! Well said, neardc. And here is the post.

Oh, my sweet *jellybeans* that was fun. As a former anthropologist, I was aware of the studies and the rhetoric surrounding evolutionary psychology- from the other side. Anthropologists just don’t do the media much. However, the evolutionary ecology side has borrowed rather nicely from anthropological studies of early modern humans- and actually *listens* when it is cautioned about making assumptions about human behaviors in the ancient past from extremely limited data. It’s kind of fun and intellectually stimulating to take a fully plotted site and its hoard of trinkets and bones… then daydream about what it all means in terms of what people did back then. But that’s all it is- daydreaming. We have some nice little hypotheses that are slowly gaining ground- but a firm grasp of behavior is beyond our reach. The closest we *can* get is to study isolated groups who practice similar lifeways to what we think those in the past had. There are serious problems with this (especially that high murder rate study… but I won’t get into that). But it’s the best tool we have.

One caveat to the end of the article- unless I am mistaken (and it is quite possible) those genes they are referring to did, indeed, show up during the rise of cities and the discovery of agriculture. There is something you should know about that time period, though. Cities and agriculture dropped the average life expectancy by years. Part of this was caused by disease- infectious diseases *love* having lots of hosts in close proximity, and cities did this. Add to that poor understanding of hygiene and medicine and you’ve got a recipe for a lot of sick people. This puts a tremendous stress on humans as a species, and species evolve under stress. Those genes they are talking about could very likely give resistance to disease (like sickle cell anemia and malaria- look it up). Genes that affect human cognitive behavior are notoriously difficult to pin down. We can get good indications, but there aren’t many genetic levers and switches that directly correlate to behavior that I’ve seen.

For the article on the main, it just seems obvious that the very plasticity of the human mind *is* the system not "mental modules." Humans are not legos! The foolishly arrogant stance that they are is a form of rigid philosophical determinism. It strips away the very capricious freedom and flexibility that defines human beings as different from animals. We’re tool users, highly social creatures, and adaptable enough to live in any climate the dry surface of the earth has to offer. We’ve evolved into this plastic kind of creature with a rather impressive biological toolkit, and it is our brain. Genetics govern many important things in our biology- including our brains. Any brains, I believe, are designed to learn, store information, and act on information learned. This learning process is more developed in humans than other animals- whereas they have more pre-coded instinct (it appears- this is not a hard-and-fast fact that I know of) we have more flexibility in how we handle situations. Human brains mature more slowly. Our children are dependant on others for far longer than most animals. This capacity for higher intellect is what most makes us, well, human in my opinion.

As far as I know, human brains are very, very similar today to what they were a few tens or a hundred thousand years ago. They had the same capacities for joy, anger, trust… and altruism, curiosity, and insanity. Looking at humans as social creatures, we adapt to our environments but there are adaptations which are not solely focused on carrying on the genetic legacy. Deleterious (bad- as in, they delete humans from history) behaviors can be absorbed by larger human groups- and the group (microcosm of humanity as a whole) survives. So murder, rape, and infanticide seem (to me) to be aberrations, rather than genetic predispositions.

Okay, I’m getting too wordy here. Long rant short, Don’t blame dad’s genes for your temper. More likely the cause would be what you *learned* from how you were raised… and can *unlearn* with the right kind of work and maybe some help (professional or otherwise).
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #26  June 22,2009, 4:40pm

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Did you all decide to go logical on me?? Seriously, every thread I have checked out is making my head hurt.

Where's the touchy-feely stuff? Forget the stats - give me the love, man!!

And cp - I have no idea where my waist is either. I just know it is bigger than it should be.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #27  June 22,2009, 4:49pm

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Ok, I tried to read the article - I got a few pages into but I tell you, I was not really following it well.

It seems that nothing really was decided. And quite frankly, and I know this is not really politically correct to say and is really off topic since we aren't talking about r.pe, but any talk of r.pe and removing the sex component to me just has never added up. I know people claim r.pe is not about sex but violence, but surely not - it is about sex or it would just be violence.

Ok carry on all, I will try to follow...Can't guarantee I will get it though.
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #28  June 22,2009, 4:53pm
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Nothing to see here at all...

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LizziePooh wrote :
Seriously, every thread I have checked out is making my head hurt.
Join the club, Lizzie!
I was just thinking the same thing...
 
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Wootz is offline Wootz Post #29  June 22,2009, 5:00pm
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I posted the superduperdelux werdy response but it is in moderation right now- no idea when it will be released. I keep doing that, and I hate to make them keep working because of what I write... But I just start putting words on the screen and don't pay attention to politics and such. I never was able to get the mod guidelines page to load (just the general ones), so I've just been trying to be polite (like I usually do).

And on the note of all these "the waste is very great" kind of things I'm hearing... Do what makes you feel good. That includes healthy, in my book. If you like how you feel now, don't worry about the waste behind the belt. If you're wanting to do something about it for *you* I could always use a workout buddy... *grin* I'm not as in shape as I used to be, either.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #30  June 22,2009, 5:03pm

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IcecreamMoon wrote :
Join the club, Lizzie!
I was just thinking the same thing...
Oh goodie! I am glad I am not the only one!

It is all cp's fault and that male brain of hers!!!
 
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