dating someone in a 12 step program


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rei818 is offline rei818 Post #1  June 7,2009, 3:51pm
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Hi folks,

I wanted to get your two cents on this issue.
Met the guy on EH and things have gone well so far. We have been on four or five dates and we have talked almost every day since our first date.
Found out last night he is in recovery, not sure how long he has gone to meetings and I didn't feel comfortable asking.
The thing is, we both experimented with substances in the past, but I am totally over it with no desire to return to that lifestyle. If he is in NA then the desire must still be there to some degree.
I am a compassionate person who gives folks the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time I don't know how solid this relationship could be if this guy is still working through stuff from his past.
Plus, I have been in relationships where both people are transferring past stuff to the present in an attempt to resolve things, and I know it is impossible to avoid this completely but I would rather not be helping someone work through lots of stuff in a romantic relationship - I am a social worker who provides counseling already and I would prefer to keep the therapy out of my personal relationships.
So I am wondering if anyone here has been in a similar situation and can tell me whether there is hope for something healthy with this guy or if it all depends on how long he has been in the program (a couple weeks ago he did something with step 9 if that helps with a timeline)- basically any advice for this situation would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Rei
 
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Lostintranslation is offline Lostintranslation Post #2  June 7,2009, 4:21pm
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In answer to the easiest question: 12 step programs do not follow a timeline. To be on Step 9 has no bearing on time input to the program. All that can be derived from that information is that they are working through the 12 steps with a sponsor. There are people who fly through them in a few months and others who take years. Further, many people will go back through the steps several times throughout their recovery.

As far as (mental/physical/emotional social) health goes, people in recovery are just like any other group in that you will have your fair share of successes and people who feel they need to go out and use drugs or alcohol again - to fill a hole that cannot be filled with any mind or mood altering substance. There is no way to say with certainty that 'yes this person will be a success' or 'no, this person will use again'.

What I can tell you is what you already know: he is working on making his life better. There is something in this man's past that brought him to recovery to say - I don't want to feel this way any more. Recovery isn't like a rash - you can't point at it and say: it is a rash, put some cream on it and it will go away.

I would suggest to you that if you are interested, that you talk to him about his recovery. If you want to know more about what it might be like on the other side of addiction - you would be benefitted by Alanon and/or Naranon - for family, friends and loved ones -- they can probably help you more with the questions you have.

On a personal level - talk to him. Recovery isn't all a person is -- so certainly there is more to him than this. Ask questions, find answers, date - and with any dating situation - be cautious, be informed - listen to your heart and your mind. The answers are there.

I wish you happiness in whatever you do!
 
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Doodler is offline Doodler Post #3  June 7,2009, 5:01pm
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You should ask him how long he has been going to support meetings. If he told you he is in recovery, asking him how long he has been clean and attending meetings is not out of line at all. That would have been a logical question (at least in my mind).

Do not judge the length of time he has been in NA as an indication of his "desire" to use. A friend of mine has been going to AA weekly (and has been sober) for 17 years. She does not always have a desire to drink, although when there were stressful times (death of parents, divorce) she did have the urge to drink. She is also a sponsor for several women who attend her group. She plans to keep with AA for the rest of her life.
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #4  June 7,2009, 6:26pm
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Being a counselor, I think you already know the answer... People in a 12 step program should not be dating, period. In fact, from what I know, the program itself encourages them not to.

Addiction happens on many levels (physiological, psychological, emotional, etc), he needs to deal with his problems before he can date anyone. The last thing you want is for him to transfer his dependency on a substance to a dependency on you. You are right, you should not be a couselor in your romantic relationships.

If you think he may be a good match, stay friends with him until he completes the program. Unfortunately, there is no established timeframe for this, each person progresses at their own speed. And if you are both attracted to each other, staying friends could be playing with fire...

Best of luck to you!
Last edited by IcecreamMoon; June 8,2009 at 3:33am. Reason: spelling
 
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MommyGetCoffee is offline MommyGetCoffee Post #5  June 7,2009, 6:40pm
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Um, people are in recovery for life. Folks who are *newly* clean and sober are encouraged not to date for a while. However, one certainly *can* be in a recovery (12 step) program and date. Many, many people are successful on program, not craving the substance, attending regular meetings and sponsoring others, *and* dating. It's completely allowed. One simply must wait a while after becoming sober. . . **not** forever!
Last edited by MommyGetCoffee; June 7,2009 at 7:01pm. Reason: grammar
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #6  June 7,2009, 7:27pm
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MommyGetCoffee wrote :
Um, people are in recovery for life. Folks who are *newly* clean and sober are encouraged not to date for a while. However, one certainly *can* be in a recovery (12 step) program and date. Many, many people are successful on program, not craving the substance, attending regular meetings and sponsoring others, *and* dating. It's completely allowed. One simply must wait a while after becoming sober. . . **not** forever!
I completely agree with you that people are in recovery for life.

I think where our views differ is that I believe that a 12 step program in itself is only a step in battling addiction. A 12 step program can be very beneficial in conquering addiction but I believe that at some stage people complete the program. It is certainly encouraged to maintain the principles of the program for life but that is different to active participation in the program.

Also, I didn't say that dating is not allowed while actively participating in a 12 step program, I said it was discouraged, especially in the earlier stages.

eta. I did say that people in a 12 step pogram should not be dating, period. I just want to clarify that this is my personal belief based on my very limited experience in this area (I worked in a drug rehab clinic for 6 months as part of completing my degree)
Last edited by IcecreamMoon; June 7,2009 at 7:50pm.
 
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outlaw1 is offline outlaw1 Post #7  June 7,2009, 7:36pm

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rei818 wrote :
Hi folks,

I wanted to get your two cents on this issue.
Met the guy on EH and things have gone well so far. We have been on four or five dates and we have talked almost every day since our first date.
Found out last night he is in recovery, not sure how long he has gone to meetings and I didn't feel comfortable asking.
The thing is, we both experimented with substances in the past, but I am totally over it with no desire to return to that lifestyle. If he is in NA then the desire must still be there to some degree.
I am a compassionate person who gives folks the benefit of the doubt, but at the same time I don't know how solid this relationship could be if this guy is still working through stuff from his past.
Plus, I have been in relationships where both people are transferring past stuff to the present in an attempt to resolve things, and I know it is impossible to avoid this completely but I would rather not be helping someone work through lots of stuff in a romantic relationship - I am a social worker who provides counseling already and I would prefer to keep the therapy out of my personal relationships.
So I am wondering if anyone here has been in a similar situation and can tell me whether there is hope for something healthy with this guy or if it all depends on how long he has been in the program (a couple weeks ago he did something with step 9 if that helps with a timeline)- basically any advice for this situation would be greatly appreciated!

Thanks,
Rei

Hi Rei,

Welcome to eha! Great question. When I was in college I went to ACOA (Adult Children of Alcoholics) for 1-1/2 years + a few Al Anon meetings. I have two people in my extended family who have some experience in AA and one had been in NA. Recently I tried to help an alcholic go to a hospital but he signed himself out. I've also read some motivational books that talked about overcoming negative life experiences including addictions.

In the past I volunteered to go to a few open meetings with them and my ex-girlfriends brother. This was mostly AA but I have attended a few NA meetings. Also in the past I dated a woman who had problems. Plus my ex-girlfriend has a huge extended family and a few who have similiar problems. As a teenager I hung out on the streets for a few years before the age of 16. That's when I decided to get off the streets and get busy.

First off, you answered your own question You say that as a Counselor that you'd prefer to keep therapy out of your relationship. I don't blame you, why bring home "work?" I want to thank you for helping people. If we all did that, this would be a better world.

First the good news. It all depends on him and his attitude. There are many success stories from life long members and/or those who attended for a time. There also are success stories of those who used therapy or religion instead of a 12 step program (becoming involved in Church activities, etc.)

Also there's a powerful, tremendous boost some men get when paired with a good woman. within a year, with the love of a woman (or just willpower) some former addicts become powerhouses both in their careers and domestically at home. Many addicts strive to be the best. And have the energy for it.

You friend might become self-employed and/or really busy one day and not need a 12 step program (allegedly a lot of addicts & alcoholics are highly intelligent.) Or he might have the personality where he needs to stay in a 12 step program. It's all up to him and what he decides. He might just be in a transition and now on his way to a successful life.

Let me tell you a story. An older friend of mine went to NA back in the 70s. At one point he decided to be self-employed and worked seven days a week. He had no more time for NA. Maybe he had built up a support system, I'm not sure. But he did have a divorced wife and children to work for (to live for, etc.)

To my knowledge he never relapsed as he worked his way to becoming a millionaire and retired early. He stayed busy with a new career for several years. However after five or so years, his health deteriorated and he was diagnosed with Hepatitis C. He got depressed (this disease saps your strength) & eventually got a doctor who prescribed methodone.
He died of a heart attack with complications due to drug usuage.

Dating-In 12 steps people are discouraged that in the first year. Others are more hardcore. Imho it's a person to person case. Some people are more mature and/or have different emotional iq/stabilized personalities. Rules were made to be broken. Only you two should decide if this should continue. NA is not a Commune nor should you make a decision out of peer pressure to do so.

Has he told his sponsor about you? Does he have a sponsor? If his sponsor knows about you, would you be willing to meet his sponsor? Some sponsors are only temporary (for a good reason-there are troubled people in those programs and personality conflicts happen as in all large social groups.)

Be careful, while some sponsors save many lives, some others use people, are manipulative, mentally off balanced (people medicate themselves for a reason) and even dangerous.

Someone mentioned that you could to Alanon (for family of alcoholics) or a similiar program like that for NA-I think it's called Narconon?

The bad news-NA ers have a higher incidence of relasping than alcoholics. Some claim 12 steps have become Occultish (he has to "confess" and that could include personal things about you.) He's going to have to found out what inner demons push him into addictive behaviors, reprogram his mind (not as difficult as that sounds-Tony Robbins can help) and stay busy. Also stay away from certain past friends and hangouts, etc.

You might want to gauge his emotional iq and present situation. Can he hack it? What happens when he hits his first huge obstacle/setback? Will he rebound? Or will you find him missing for days at a time if/when he hits a speed bump? Will he revert back to certain behaviors during a crisis? Would you be able to depend on him?

Since this can be a disease of lonelyness and even temper tantrums for some, will he hit you? Or verbally abuse you? Also he could of been emotionally, physically, se xually and/or intellectually abused as a child. These issues can be ongoing for a long time (or permanent?)

Some 12 step people are very intense. They can control others and become entangled in their personal lives. Will this have a negative impact on your relationship with him? Will his sponsor disagree with some your decisons on certain relationship issues behind your back?

These are just examples of worst case scenarios to think about. He might already have balanced emotions and a healthy outlook on life.

Does he have plans for his life and/or career? Maybe not I've checked out your profile and you are young. He might be too and most young people don't have clear set goals.* One hint that might tell you is finding out who he hangs out with/associates with in NA (or AA.)

There are some successful social cliques there as well as troublesome cliques. I hope some of this has helped you. Good luck! Let us know how it's going.

Disclaimer: I'm not a therapist or member of NA/AA.

c2008-2009 sei as published on another website

*Napolean Hill + a schmillion other motivational speakers
Last edited by outlaw1; June 7,2009 at 8:32pm.
 
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IcecreamMoon is offline IcecreamMoon Post #8  June 7,2009, 8:00pm
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Great post, outlaw! Very insightful.
And I completely agree, pretty much on all counts.
I think it is important to understand that while 12 step programs can be very beneficial in battling addiction, they may not be effective for everyone, and they are only one tool in a very long and complicated process of recovery.
 
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outlaw1 is offline outlaw1 Post #9  June 7,2009, 8:48pm

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IcecreamMoon wrote :
Great post, outlaw! Very insightful.
And I completely agree, pretty much on all counts.
I think it is important to understand that while 12 step programs can be very beneficial in battling addiction, they may not be effective for everyone, and they are only one tool in a very long and complicated process of recovery.

That's a nice compliment, thanks Well said and I strongly agree with you. There are many newcomers to 12 steps that don't like them and leave. It's based on "tough love."

I learned a lot from the School of hard knocks & seeing people sabotage their lives. That plus read a lot of self-help books.
 
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1passionatefem is offline 1passionatefem Post #10  June 8,2009, 10:29am
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You should be glad that he is in a program. He should continue with meetings and NA for the rest of his life. You should have concerns if he stops going. Working the steps means he has a sponsor and is active in his program. Kuddles to him.
 
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