Folly of minimizing attraction and chemistry


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waltercl is online now waltercl Post #101  May 26,2009, 6:26am
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trailviews wrote :
Yes, in his initial post he also claimed to be familiar with Dr. Warren's research and this was all supposedly grounded in that, and now 10 pages of discussion later it's his personal "opinion".

Exactly zero evidence has been provided in this thread that initial chemistry/spark is the "foundation for a successful, long-lasting relationship".
I'm not sure if people don't actually read the posts or if they just see what they want to see while they're reading.

Here's what I said regarding Dr. Warren. I have read his book regarding the need to be matched on several different key areas, and how this is something that he found present in many successful couples. I agree with his findings, and I most definitely agree that you've got to go beyond whatever it is that may have drawn you together initially and build the relationship on these inward qualities that aren't immediately apparent.

And I never set out to prove that chemistry/spark was by itself the foundation for a long lasting relationship. It is one component. In fact I think it would be foolish for anyone to assume that just because there is an initial attraction that this guarantees success in their relationship.

My view is both components are needed. One view is that the chemistry and attraction come first and then you explore the other areas and develop an even deeper bond around those inward compatibilities, and another view is you start with these inward compatibility traits and build attraction and chemistry from there. Neither view is right or wrong. The title of this thread was that it was folly to dismiss the element of Chemistry and Attraction. I could just as easily start a thread saying it is folly to dismiss the need for building the deeper bond around other compatibility traits. Neither should be dismissed.

I have stated that I do believe most need some kind of initial attraction before they will pursue the relationship further, but I and others have gone out of our way to emphasize that there are many different factors that determine what all may be involved in that attraction. In fact sometimes it might be they pick up rather early if some of these key inward compatibility traits are present are not. Whatever it is whether conscious, subconscious or a little bit of both it is a real factor for a lot of people.

I fully accept the merits of the differing view on this, and it doesn't bother me that there are those who are wired differently. If we understand why the differences exist and accept them for what they are then there's no need to argue about it. If someone feels they need something initially to begin the process then that's ok. If someone doesn't then that's ok too. If a person of one view is matched up with a person of another view and one decides early on not to try and pursue the relationship because they don't feel there is potential then nobody is right or wrong or shallow or whatever. They each move on to find someone who is compatible.

If you stick with the basics on this then it really doesn't have to be complicated or turn into heated debates.
Last edited by waltercl; May 26,2009 at 6:42am.
 
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tumbleweed is offline tumbleweed Post #102  May 26,2009, 7:43am
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walter you realy need come and try some of these starwberrys, they are realy good,, then you can sit back and listen a little,, as judge judy put it,,'' men know dirt'' she was talking about this subject,, as men in general we dont have a clue,, we cant even compete in this arrinna,,weman will pick you up like a rage doll and chew you up like gum,,,,me man,i hunt,i fix car,i fight off enemy, you woman??? well you be woman??? make me happy,, fix hurt
 
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mittsnow is offline mittsnow Post #103  May 26,2009, 7:56am
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Walter,

I agree at some point there should be some attraction/chemistry between people.... I can't tell you the number of times I've been closed out by someone who read my profile page and stated they didn't feel any chemistry. My question: HOW CAN YOU DETERMINE CHEMISTRY BY LOOKING AT A COMPUTER SCREEN???

I'm no longer an EH member (I've tried 2 extended periods and it just hasn't worked out for me). Just today I read a profile (they still send 'em hoping to lure me back in) and found myself considering maybe signing up for a month as this man had so many of the interests I had, was clearly intelligent, and said a number of things that indicated he seemed like a sensitive man who truly wanted to find a compatible life partner. When you're not a current member, you don't get pictures, so I had no idea what this man looked like, but was not concerned about that. While debating with myself, I clicked on the summary page -- and read his "closed" message. You guessed it -- he felt there was no "chemistry" there.

What does "chemistry" mean to a man other than physical appearance? I don't understand how I could evaluate the "potential" between us so differently. By the way, I am routinely told "You look much younger than your age" and was recently "complimented" by a man at my gym who --get this-- asked me if I used to be a weightlifter "cause your body--it's all there." (I'm 49, and this new EH man was 57--and it's been my experience that men don't "age" nearly as well as women do, and have less ways to try and compensate for physical flaws). I'll even repost my picture for this message so you can judge for yourself if I look like an old hag. I think I'm attractive enough not to be clicked off with an "ugh, loser" (like the woman online dating routinely did in the movie "Burn After Reading.")

I've dated 2 men recently that were not immediately physically attractive to me (balding, semi-overweight, one with a beard when I don't like that) but each time there was enough other information that made me feel that they would be good people with "potential." In both cases, they became more "attractive" as I got to know them as people--not just as an evaluation of a snapshot.

I guess this has turned into a rant of my own. I'd really like to hear your answer to my question--but will be surprised if I do.

p.s. There was one time I laughed out loud at someone's picture on EH. It was an extremely obese man (400 - 500 pounds range) who listed "physical attractiveness" as his top choice of the "5 things he couldn't live without." It reminded me of the old SNL skit where the therapist just keeps telling her client to "look at yourself, just look in the mirror, look at yourself..."
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #104  May 26,2009, 8:39am

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In a nutshell

Most men need to be physically attracted to a woman to want to date.

Most women can find a man attractive in spite of physical looks.

Fallacies

That men are shallow because they want physical beauty or that they only want physical beauty.
That women are better because they can look past the physical and see the person on the inside.

Obviously, there are exceptions to the women not needing looks first and men needing looks first but they are exceptions. I know a few but I also know the majority of people that fall in the generalized category.

I believe Walter's point is that attraction/chemistry however we define it is important. It is not the be all, end all but it needs to be there for a relationship to develop. Otherwise, we are just dating a bunch of people that we think of as friends. To bemoan this fact or to pretend it does not exist does not help anyone. And to pretend that men are not more inclined to knowing instantly whether they are attracted to someone is not doing anyone good. Why not accept it for what it is and capitalize on it? As least us women have the power to modify our appearances versus the poor short men that are just stuck with their height for the rest of their lives.

I think us women have a hard time with this because we tend to think we have more moral reasons for why we find someone attractive. I mean come on, we aren't shallow - we are attracted to the inner you. He! He! Of course, we are on the moral high ground! Hogwash!!! Attraction is what it is. In general, physical for the man and in general, something else for the women. Since ours is more undefinable we need more time to recognize it. While for the man, they know within the first few seconds if they are attracted to you.

I still don't get why some people want to deny that as true. And I still don't get why we don't just accept it as a fact of life and move on. It is what it is. I don't think it is anything new or a new phenome because of edating.


(Good thread Walter. I have seen this topic many times (another reasons to know that it is a fact of life) and I am a little tired of it. So, I think you did a great job on this thread since you managed to get this jaded poster to visit it a few times .)
 
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DDjr is offline DDjr Post #105  May 26,2009, 9:42am
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Waltercl,

Thanks for posting an interesting thread and an issue that I think IS misunderstood.

EH does kind of try to sell it both ways, saying on the one hand that 29 dimensions trump all, but then on the other says, "oh yes... well... attraction does matter."

Where people are really hurt by this is that they think that they can avoid posting a picture and that somehow at the end of the process the fact that they are massively overweight is not going to be a problem.

---------------------------------------------

To the poster a couple of back who is being "closed for no chemistry": (not implying that the poster is either of the following...) EH does not have a "I don't think you're attractive at all" or "I think you are way overweight" reason for closing a match. People might or might not use these.

"Closing for Chemistry" (to me) means that you have looked at the person's pictures and you have read their profile, and then you have decided that there are too many negatives to even attempt communications.
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #106  May 26,2009, 9:46am
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Good post, Lizzie.

I think many men also keep distinct memories (sometimes painful ones) of their younger days, when seemingly women were placing a higher priority on physical appearance. So many guys spent their 20s and early 30s trying to attain those attributes younger women found desirable -- namely, physical appearance and financial success. When these men feel they've achieved these goals, they then make these same demands of women because they feel they've "earned the right" to do so. Even with my own female friends that aren''t shallow, many of them have acknowledged that they were more shallow in their younger days.

People change. Life experiences, increased social and professional interactions, and recognition of one's own mortality often lead people to better understand the importance of both looks and personality as they get older.

I don't speak for all men on this, and these are really my own musings as to how expectations between genders often become confused.
Last edited by tbesq; May 26,2009 at 9:48am.
 
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trailviews is offline trailviews Post #107  May 26,2009, 10:54am
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waltercl wrote :
I'm not sure if people don't actually read the posts or if they just see what they want to see while they're reading.

Here's what I said regarding Dr. Warren. I have read his book regarding the need to be matched on several different key areas, and how this is something that he found present in many successful couples. I agree with his findings, and I most definitely agree that you've got to go beyond whatever it is that may have drawn you together initially and build the relationship on these inward qualities that aren't immediately apparent.

And I never set out to prove that chemistry/spark was by itself the foundation for a long lasting relationship. It is one component.
For the third time, I am going to ask where in Dr. Warren's research it says that chemistry/spark is a component of the foundation for a long lasting relationship?

And yes, I made a typo, I meant "a" foundation instead of "the".
Last edited by trailviews; May 26,2009 at 11:11am.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #108  May 26,2009, 11:11am

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trailviews wrote :
For the third time, I am going to ask where in Dr. Warren's research it says that chemistry/spark is a component of the foundation for a long lasting relationship?
I am curious Trailviews if you think chemistry/spark/attraction - whatever the heck we call it - is not important to a long lasting relationship? I think it is critical and gets harder to keep and nurture once the "courting" is over. But I plan on never giving up that spark for someone and I think it is just as important as same values, goals etc.
 
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Jato87 is offline Jato87 Post #109  May 26,2009, 11:16am
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This has been a great thread, and I think waltercl made a valid observation and explained it very well, as did those who increasingly expressed the opposite view over the last few pages. But now it's become like a cat chasing its own tail.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #110  May 26,2009, 11:20am
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tbesq wrote :
Good post, Lizzie.

I think many men also keep distinct memories (sometimes painful ones) of their younger days, when seemingly women were placing a higher priority on physical appearance. So many guys spent their 20s and early 30s trying to attain those attributes younger women found desirable -- namely, physical appearance and financial success. When these men feel they've achieved these goals, they then make these same demands of women because they feel they've "earned the right" to do so.
So, it's all about payback...lol?
 
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