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Jacquiem is offline Jacquiem Post #71  April 22,2009, 5:53am
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tbesq,588120 wrote :

Ingy,


Men have learned to have fairly low standards regarding our expectations from a relationship, because we're pretty laid-back and our self-esteem is not always tied to how a woman feels about us (not saying that's the blanket case with women, but the level of emotional attachment is certainly different). We hear more about what we do wrong in relationships than what we do right. Our women may be telling everybody else what we're doing right, but we don't always hear it directly as much. Men like compliments too


I've heard women say that they don't compliment men as much (i.e. on our looks, our generosity, our strength) because we let it get to our heads. Maybe that's true, but not any more so than women let it get to their heads. It also may be because we just don't hear it that much, so when we do we don't always just "take it in stride."

T, I have heard other women say this, too, and it has always bothered me. Maybe because I come from a family where we're all lovey-dovey and stuff. Even the men. I think it is absolutely CRITICAL fora woman to be her man's cheerleader. Not if he's a deadbeat, no-good-for-nothing layabout, but if he works hard all day, helps with stuff around the house, tries to make sure she has a good time when they're together, is actually making an effort to be considerate of her feelings and wants and desires, what's the bid deal about throwing out a, "Baby, thank you for fixing the sink. You were awfully cute with that wrench in your hand..."


What's wrong with telling a man he looks nice in his clothes (if he really does - do go lying to people, that doesn't help). I love a well-dressed man. Love a man in a suit, and if you look good in that suit, I am telling you so. If a guytakes me toa restaurant that I end up really enjoying, I thank him for being so thoughful. Did I enjoy the movie? Thanks for taking me to the movie. I like it a lot and enjoyed watching it with you. What's wrong with telling a guy, "You have such a nice smile!"


I don't compliment the guys in the gym on their strength. They're a bunch of show offs. Working out with their shirts off, tempting good Christian women like me.


Sheesh, how hard are kind words, or am I, as I have been told more than once, too nice for my own good?


Oh, and nothing irks me more than a bunch of women and men sitting around talking about what their men and women aren't doing right. That's SO destructive.
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #72  April 22,2009, 6:08am
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Jacquiem,589017 wrote :

tbesq,588120 wrote :


Ingy,


Men have learned to have fairly low standards regarding our expectations from a relationship, because we're pretty laid-back and our self-esteem is not always tied to how a woman feels about us (not saying that's the blanket case with women, but the level of emotional attachment is certainly different). We hear more about what we do wrong in relationships than what we do right. Our women may be telling everybody else what we're doing right, but we don't always hear it directly as much. Men like compliments too


I've heard women say that they don't compliment men as much (i.e. on our looks, our generosity, our strength) because we let it get to our heads. Maybe that's true, but not any more so than women let it get to their heads. It also may be because we just don't hear it that much, so when we do we don't always just "take it in stride."





T, I have heard other women say this, too, and it has always bothered me. Maybe because I come from a family where we're all lovey-dovey and stuff. Even the men. I think it is absolutely CRITICAL fora woman to be her man's cheerleader. Not if he's a deadbeat, no-good-for-nothing layabout, but if he works hard all day, helps with stuff around the house, tries to make sure she has a good time when they're together, is actually making an effort to be considerate of her feelings and wants and desires, what's the bid deal about throwing out a, "Baby, thank you for fixing the sink. You were awfully cute with that wrench in your hand..."


What's wrong with telling a man he looks nice in his clothes (if he really does - do go lying to people, that doesn't help). I love a well-dressed man. Love a man in a suit, and if you look good in that suit, I am telling you so. If a guytakes me toa restaurant that I end up really enjoying, I thank him for being so thoughful. Did I enjoy the movie? Thanks for taking me to the movie. I like it a lot and enjoyed watching it with you. What's wrong with telling a guy, "You have such a nice smile!"


I don't compliment the guys in the gym on their strength. They're a bunch of show offs. Working out with their shirts off, tempting good Christian women like me.


Sheesh, how hard are kind words, or am I, as I have been told more than once, too nice for my own good?


Oh, and nothing irks me more than a bunch of women and men sitting around talking about what their men and women aren't doing right. That's SO destructive.
One of the biggest challenges in relationships today is lack of trust. People enter into relationships with people they don't always entirely trust, with the hopes that things will be OK. You shouldn't be with someone if you don't believe that they will appreciate a compliment. When I hear women say they don't compliment men, I take it as a sweeping indictment that men are full of themselves and shouldn't expect to be appreciated in a relationship.


We are all human beings, and the need to feel loved and appreciated is one of the basic needs for men and women alike. If anything, this mentality tells men that it is better to just look for our own happiness when dating; after all, why try to make a woman happy if she is not going to show her appreciation? This idea that men don't need to feel appreciated is false.


I have read some research from experts who say that the number one reason men cheat is because they feel a lack of appreciation in their relationship. I realize that these are a handful of studies out of many, and that this is but one theory out of many. But I do feel that there is some validity. Men, despite our flaws, are capable of being faithful to women who let us know that we are making them happy (assuming the man behaves in a manner deserving of that praise).
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #73  April 22,2009, 6:30am
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I guess for me, the biggest challenge I seeare people bringing so much pain, hurt, and anger from their past relationships into a new one, that it's impossible for them to 'see' the actual person in front of them...that negativity has clouded their view...


I sadly see people wholistened to too many 'horror stories' of all their friend's, or lived a life of finding only people who have treated them badly.,or 'it's always their fault...and have such a guarded and suspicious way of starting a new relationship..(just 'waiting' for that person to 'fail' at something...so they can say..'see..I knew it..they are xyz'....or 'all women feel....or all men do such and such...


As I age and mature, for me, it's really looking at myself, my contribution to the demise of any past relationship...changing things about myself that I want/need to, giving up what was someone else's 'issues' and then being ABSOLUTELY open and joyful about the next man I meet...


That is why, in my opinion (not saying all people should!! LOL)...it's was best to really take time alone to be reflective and heal fully after a 'break up' so that all the negative emotion and feelings don't get projected onto the next person..


I want to welcome a new person into my life with a completly open heart and mind





And Jacq..I agree..I LOVE to compliment the man I care/love on everything they do...just 'because" not to gain anything except hopefully making them feel good!
 
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Jacquiem is offline Jacquiem Post #74  April 22,2009, 7:19am
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Ingytravel,589034 wrote :

I guess for me, the biggest challenge I seeare people bringing so much pain, hurt, and anger from their past relationships into a new one, that it's impossible for them to 'see' the actual person in front of them...that negativity has clouded their view...


I sadly see people wholistened to too many 'horror stories' of all their friend's, or lived a life of finding only people who have treated them badly.,or 'it's always their fault...and have such a guarded and suspicious way of starting a new relationship..(just 'waiting' for that person to 'fail' at something...so they can say..'see..I knew it..they are xyz'....or 'all women feel....or all men do such and such...


As I age and mature, for me, it's really looking at myself, my contribution to the demise of any past relationship...changing things about myself that I want/need to, giving up what was someone else's 'issues' and then being ABSOLUTELY open and joyful about the next man I meet...


That is why, in my opinion (not saying all people should!! LOL)...it's was best to really take time alone to be reflective and heal fully after a 'break up' so that all the negative emotion and feelings don't get projected onto the next person..


I want to welcome a new person into my life with a completly open heart and mind





And Jacq..I agree..I LOVE to compliment the man I care/love on everything they do...just 'because" not to gain anything except hopefully making them feel good!
I agree with you, Ingy. That's why I have the "no conversation about your (or my) exes" rule when I date. We've all been hurt by people and it's hard not to approach every new person with the pain and trepdiation casued by the last person. But that's not fair to the new person! That person never gets a chance to really be themselves because they're always either explaining that they're not like the last few knuckleheads you dated, or they're trying to adjust to being treated like you think they're going to act like the last few knuckleheads you dated. Then they get frustrated, tell you you have a stinky attitude, and walk away.


I don't jump right into even having long conversations with guys after a break-up. As I said, I work out a lot, so the fellas are ALWAYS on the prowl in that gym (it's almost like a National Geogrphic video if you just sit and watch sometimes). They're an awful chatty bunch, and most are really nice once they realize you're not willing to be prey, but there are a few who are RELENTLESS.After my last beau, I intentionally withdrew from the guys I regularly chat and work out with. I was lonely, hurting, and it would have been so easy to fill that void with another guy's attention. I was able to resettle myself, honestly assess my own behavior in the relationship (was I too understanding of some things, did I demand enough/too muchof him, what have we learned for next time), and be comfortable in my own skin again. Now that's just my thing, but it works wonders at keeping me from being bitter at all men when I am treated badly by just one.


Oh, and in my last post I meant to type DON'T go lying to people!!!
 
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Jacquiem is offline Jacquiem Post #75  April 22,2009, 7:25am
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T, I agree with that research. Too many actual men have told mehow important it is forthe women in their lives to appreciate them for me not to believe it.
 
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simplemind is offline simplemind Post #76  April 22,2009, 7:43am
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Jacquiem,589017 wrote :

tbesq,588120 wrote :


Ingy,


Men have learned to have fairly low standards regarding our expectations from a relationship, ...We hear more about what we do wrong in relationships than what we do right....


I've heard women say that they don't compliment men as much (i.e. on our looks, our generosity, our strength) because we let it get to our heads. ...


T, I have heard other women say this, too, and it has always bothered me. Maybe because I come from a family where we're all lovey-dovey and stuff. Even the men. I think it is absolutely CRITICAL fora woman to be her man's cheerleader. Not if he's a deadbeat, no-good-for-nothing layabout, but if he works hard all day, helps with stuff around the house, tries to make sure she has a good time when they're together, is actually making an effort to be considerate of her feelings and wants and desires, what's the bid deal about throwing out a, "Baby, thank you for fixing the sink. You were awfully cute with that wrench in your hand..."


What's wrong with telling a man he looks nice in his clothes (if he really does - do go lying to people, that doesn't help). I love a well-dressed man. Love a man in a suit, and if you look good in that suit, I am telling you so. If a guytakes me toa restaurant that I end up really enjoying, I thank him for being so thoughful. Did I enjoy the movie? Thanks for taking me to the movie. I like it a lot and enjoyed watching it with you. What's wrong with telling a guy, "You have such a nice smile!"


I don't compliment the guys in the gym on their strength. They're a bunch of show offs. Working out with their shirts off, tempting good Christian women like me.


Sheesh, how hard are kind words, or am I, as I have been told more than once, too nice for my own good?


Oh, and nothing irks me more than a bunch of women and men sitting around talking about what their men and women aren't doing right. That's SO destructive.
tbesq, that sounds so much like an aunt of mine! She used to tell people not to compliment me as a little girl, because it might spoil me. Huh? Said it about her own kids, too, boys and girls. There seems to be this idea that being kind is unkind? I understand that false flattery, just like Jacquiem warns against, can harm us. But what's wrong with sincere appreciation?


Jacquiem, that prediliction to kindness may have started in our family lives; but I also believe that even if you didn't grow up with it, it is possible to learn what a person needs in terms of nurturing, and to learn to provide it. I mean, you didn't learn all of this in your home, did you? You learned that giving the gift of a compliment truly makes someone you care about have a little lift in their day--it has become part of you to do so. It is part of the person you have made of yourself. So don't let anyone go on telling you that you are too kind--I'd rather err on the side of being too kind than too cool.


And have you ever been treated with suspicion, because you gave a compliment, or did a kindness? What's this culture coming to, when an act of pure courtesy is more suspect than an act of thoughtlessness?


I have this little thing I like to watch for; comes from a little list I keep near my door. Each day, there's a little goal. My favorite is the one that asks me to find someone who has a need and if I can, try to help. Without them knowing it, and without getting caught doing it. I add in that I also can't tell anyone, anytime, that I did it.


Keeps the suspicion factor out, and me from getting a swelled head. I think that would have been okay with the aunt. :-)
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #77  April 22,2009, 8:12am
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Simplemind...that's wonderful that you try to find a way to give a 'random act of kindness' each day!!! Yeah for you!!!


To T, I guess I feel blessed that I haven't had relationships with men that had such low 'expectations' for me or our relationship...or felt that theyhad only 'heard what they have done wrong'. in past relationships..


I really feel for you T as it seems that you have run into this a lot in your own life andthat youthink that a lot of men are this way too...and that could be true...I just haven't been around guys that feel this way....but I am starting to see a lot of on these boards...and I truly am not judging...(have to say that a thousand times which is ok)...just find it more sad to see so much hurt, anger, pain....


And, this is my first and only time on any type of relationship 'message boards' so not used to hearing these things...


Maybe because I won'tdate guys that haverecently broken up with someone or anytime sooner than a year or more out of their divorce...and more importantly than the actual time frame...but making sure they are happy and healthy and ready to date someone again...as I try to do for myself...


and with EH...I always ask the question in the second 'round' of 'what would they change about a dating/relationship situation from their past"...to see how reflective they are about their own shortcomings...or whether they only blame the other person...


This would be a huge red flag for me if they have not taken time to really process and heal from their last relationship. or haven't accepted any responsibilty for their past...and realize that we ALL aren't perfect and have make bad decisions, mistakes, and have hurt others by our actions...it's how we handled them, and how do we feel now about ourselves and the other person...


But like Jacq and Simplemind...no matter what happens in my life or how I've been hurt...I will stay true to what type of person Iwant to bewith giving, without hesitation,in abundance, of my time, love, care, and support to the next man I have a relationship with


There's my 'tangent' again Simple..lol...that is the interesting/fun part of the boards where one sentence can get someone thinking in another direction...or maybe that's just me...HAHAHA
 
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tbesq is offline tbesq Post #78  April 22,2009, 8:19am
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Ingytravel,589129 wrote :

Simplemind...that's wonderful that you try to find a way to give a 'random act of kindness' each day!!! Yeah for you!!!


To T, I guess I feel blessed that I haven't had relationships with men that had such low 'expectations' for me or our relationship...or felt that theyhad only 'heard what they have done wrong'. in past relationships..


I really feel for you T as it seems that you have run into this a lot in your own life andthat youthink that a lot of men are this way too...and that could be true...I just haven't been around guys that feel this way....but I am starting to see a lot of on these boards...and I truly am not judging...(have to say that a thousand times which is ok)...just find it more sad to see so much hurt, anger, pain....


And, this is my first and only time on any type of relationship 'message boards' so not used to hearing these things...


Maybe because I won'tdate guys that haverecently broken up with someone or anywhere sooner than a year or more out of their divorce...and more importantly than the actual time frame...but making sure they are happy and healthy and ready to date someone again...as I try to do for myself...


and with EH...I always ask the question in the second 'round' of 'what would they change about a dating/relationship situation from their past"...to see how reflective they are about their own shortcomings...or whether they only blame the other person...


This would be a huge red flag for me if they have not taken time to really process and heal from their last relationship. or haven't accepted any responsibilty for their past...and realize that we ALL aren't perfect and have make bad decisions, mistakes, and have hurt others by our actions...it's how we handled them, and how do we feel now about ourselves and the other person...


But like Jacq and Simplemind...no matter what happens in my life or how I've been hurt...I will stay true to what type of person Iwant to bewith giving, without hesitation,in abundance , of my time, love, care, and support to the next man I have a relationship with


There's my 'tangent' again Simple..lol...that is the interesting/fun part of the boards where one sentence can get someone thinking in another direction...or maybe that's just me...HAHAHA
I think everyone has experiences inappreciation at one point or another in a relationship. I think it's unproductive to cite specific examples. I never assume that the next woman I date will not be appreciative of what I do. From my personal experience, most of them are appreciative. But I have been expressly told by many women that they don't give their men compliments because their men can't handle them. Me being me, I wonder why they would continue to date such men. Plus, as I've mentioned, I know plenty of women who get carried away by men giving them compliments, so I see it as a two-way street.


It is also important to remember that men, being the prideful species that we are, will not always be quick to express our disappointment at not having our women appreciate us. This is probably a big reason why you haven't heard men say it. I fully acknowledge that men should be more vocal to their SO in cases like this. However, we also have to maintain that machismo that, based on what I've seen IRL and on these boards, many women want in their men. It's a tough balancing-act, and few of us men have mastered it.
 
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Jacquiem is offline Jacquiem Post #79  April 22,2009, 8:21am
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simplemind,589096 wrote :

tbesq, that sounds so much like an aunt of mine! She used to tell people not to compliment me as a little girl, because it might spoil me. Huh? Said it about her own kids, too, boys and girls. There seems to be this idea that being kind is unkind? I understand that false flattery, just like Jacquiem warns against, can harm us. But what's wrong with sincere appreciation?


Jacquiem, that prediliction to kindness may have started in our family lives; but I also believe that even if you didn't grow up with it, it is possible to learn what a person needs in terms of nurturing, and to learn to provide it. I mean, you didn't learn all of this in your home, did you? You learned that giving the gift of a compliment truly makes someone you care about have a little lift in their day--it has become part of you to do so. It is part of the person you have made of yourself. So don't let anyone go on telling you that you are too kind--I'd rather err on the side of being too kind than too cool.


And have you ever been treated with suspicion, because you gave a compliment, or did a kindness? What's this culture coming to, when an act of pure courtesy is more suspect than an act of thoughtlessness?


I have this little thing I like to watch for; comes from a little list I keep near my door. Each day, there's a little goal. My favorite is the one that asks me to find someone who has a need and if I can, try to help. Without them knowing it, and without getting caught doing it. I add in that I also can't tell anyone, anytime, that I did it.


Keeps the suspicion factor out, and me from getting a swelled head. I think that would have been okay with the aunt. :-)[/quote]

Simplemind, I think I learned it growing up at home (play nice with others); growing up inSunday School and church (do unto others, love thy neighbor, as much as it is in your power, get along with people); and from my own observations in early adulthood (seeing how much better people reacted to kindness as opposed tounwarranted criticizm/meanness).


Treated with suspicion?? That's an understatement!! Try telling a lady you don't know that you like her shoes. Check the look on her face. It's like she's thinking, "She's just jeaslous because they're not HER shoes!!! HUSSY!!!" Sometimes I don't even get a "thank you," just a stammering, "Oh..."


Oh well, it's the occupation hazard of the nice girl.
 
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Ingytravel is offline Ingytravel Post #80  April 22,2009, 8:25am
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tbesq,589138 wrote :


Ingytravel,589129 wrote :


Simplemind...that's wonderful that you try to find a way to give a 'random act of kindness' each day!!! Yeah for you!!!


To T, I guess I feel blessed that I haven't had relationships with men that had such low 'expectations' for me or our relationship...or felt that theyhad only 'heard what they have done wrong'. in past relationships..


I really feel for you T as it seems that you have run into this a lot in your own life andthat youthink that a lot of men are this way too...and that could be true...I just haven't been around guys that feel this way....but I am starting to see a lot of on these boards...and I truly am not judging...(have to say that a thousand times which is ok)...just find it more sad to see so much hurt, anger, pain....


And, this is my first and only time on any type of relationship 'message boards' so not used to hearing these things...


Maybe because I won'tdate guys that haverecently broken up with someone or anywhere sooner than a year or more out of their divorce...and more importantly than the actual time frame...but making sure they are happy and healthy and ready to date someone again...as I try to do for myself...


and with EH...I always ask the question in the second 'round' of 'what would they change about a dating/relationship situation from their past"...to see how reflective they are about their own shortcomings...or whether they only blame the other person...


This would be a huge red flag for me if they have not taken time to really process and heal from their last relationship. or haven't accepted any responsibilty for their past...and realize that we ALL aren't perfect and have make bad decisions, mistakes, and have hurt others by our actions...it's how we handled them, and how do we feel now about ourselves and the other person...


But like Jacq and Simplemind...no matter what happens in my life or how I've been hurt...I will stay true to what type of person Iwant to bewith giving, without hesitation,in abundance , of my time, love, care, and support to the next man I have a relationship with


There's my 'tangent' again Simple..lol...that is the interesting/fun part of the boards where one sentence can get someone thinking in another direction...or maybe that's just me...HAHAHA


I think everyone has experiences inappreciation at one point or another in a relationship. I think it's unproductive to cite specific examples. I never assume that the next woman I date will not be appreciative of what I do. From my personal experience, most of them are appreciative. But I have been expressly told by many women that they don't give their men compliments because their men can't handle them. Me being me, I wonder why they would continue to date such men. Plus, as I've mentioned, I know plenty of women who get carried away by men giving them compliments, so I see it as a two-way street.


It is also important to remember that men, being the prideful species that we are, will not always be quick to express our disappointment at not having our women appreciate us. This is probably a big reason why you haven't heard men say it. I fully acknowledge that men should be more vocal to their SO in cases like this. However, we also have to maintain that machismo that, based on what I've seen IRL and on these boards, many women want in their men. It's a tough balancing-act, and few of us men have mastered it.


I was speaking of men I have been in long term relationships with and how overthose years..we talked about EVERYTHING..past, present, future HAHAHA..


so what you have experienced...is not what I have, and vice/versa...that's all I'm trying to point out..I know you have strong feelings about most men from your viewpoint...it just doesn't have to reference all of them...some of us have actually had very healthy relationships, even if they ended...doesn't mean they were bad....so when you say 'men' do this, feel this, act a certain way...just saying you are speaking from your own life and people you know...and not ALL
 
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