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scarlet13 wrote :

Lindsey:


yeah, i agree. i like when a guy opens car doors for me, but i don't hold it against him when he doesn't because some shrew yelled at him for it in some misguided attempt to be a feminist.


i also like it when a guy walks me to the door. how else can you have a proper good night kiss?
Yeah!!! The guy I mentioned, aka "The One That Got Away," (lol!!) was the first guy who ever walked me to my door and yes, it ended with a kiss. I had to lean against the wall for a second and get my bearings back once I made it into the house!! It was a great moment.


I agree with not holding it against a guy who doesn't open doors because he's received a tongue lashing for doing so for someone else. I've never understood the point of getting angry with someone for being polite!!
- April 21st, 2009, 01:00 am
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For me....old or new behavior, I just want somebody who is respectful, courteous and kind...just like bocca was saying....a gentleman's rule normally consists things that he needs to do for the woman. A woman's rule of being a 'lady' is to LET a guy being a gentleman.


But yeah, if you asked us specifically what we want....we truly don't know the specifics anymore..but generally at least meet us half way....reciprocate our kindness, be kind to us....don't put yourself higher than us and want us to put you on pedestal (many women think that 'being a lady' equals having to be served to hand and foot)....


Rule of the thumb....if you like the treatment (being pampered, taken care of, being cooked or taken out to dinner, being spoiled, etc...) chances are he'd like it too. There will be some mixed up people who say guys don't like to be called, etc...to be informed that you enjoyed the date last night, etc...disregard those people just like we will disregard the women who get angry when we open the doors for them. Ya can never go wrong with courtesy...it goes both ways and it goes along ways!





- April 21st, 2009, 01:04 am
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boccabum boccabum is offline
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scarlet13 wrote :

boccabum wrote :


scarlet13 wrote :


i once had a man pick me up for a date and instead of coming to the door, he honked his horn. i'm kinda stubborn so i just stayed in the house, and then he called from his cell phone all upset "I'm outside waiting for you!"


i told him i knew he was outside, i was waiting for him to get the hint and come to the door like a gentleman.


i dunno. i'd like to see a return of manners in general.


See...your example is one of modern but nasty behavior.


I think manners, in general, should always rule. However, when I hear the phrase "old fashioned" all I think of are good manners and effort in one direction > from the man to the woman. I know, this sounds unfair, but that's what I think. Usually, its formed in a statement like this; "I have old fashioned values. I expect the man to chase me, hold open the door, stand up when I enter the room, ask me out, call me, take care of me, etc." But I never hear old fashioned behavior that goes the other direction (other than not having sex with him).


what kind of old fashioned behavior do you want to see from a woman?
None! Like I said, I think "old fashioned" behavior has no place in my life.
That being said, I expect civility from a woman. I expect to be treated equally (and I give the same). I expect to be treated the way SHE wants to be treated. No more no less. Again, to me, "old fashioned" behavior is sexism masked as good behavior. Sure, you get the door opened for you and the other nice things done for you but its done because you're a woman-If a man does this with old fashioned notions, he might also believe the negative values are also valid. The idea that you're weaker, not capable, not equipped for the outside world.


Modern civil behavior should cause people, without regard to gender, to do nice things for each other.
- April 21st, 2009, 01:05 am
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scarlet13 I don't want more choice! I just want nicer things!

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simplemind wrote :

scarlet13 wrote :


i once had a man pick me up for a date and instead of coming to the door, he honked his horn. i'm kinda stubborn so i just stayed in the house, and then he called from his cell phone all upset "I'm outside waiting for you!"


i told him i knew he was outside, i was waiting for him to get the hint and come to the door like a gentleman.


i dunno. i'd like to see a return of manners in general.


Oh, Scarlet! I'm so sorry this happened to you, but I can't help myself--am laughing out loud as I type this!


AMEN!
please. *waves hand* i got a million funny date stories.


i did go out with that guy a few more times, BTW. he just didn't know- it wasn't like he was being a clueless jerk on purpose.


i will say that generally manners is the one thing that older men have all over younger guys, though i did have a guy make his son open the door for me at Wawa the other day- it was cute, and i made sure to thank him and the father. hope for the future!


- April 21st, 2009, 01:12 am
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boccabum wrote :

scarlet13 wrote :


boccabum wrote :


scarlet13 wrote :


i once had a man pick me up for a date and instead of coming to the door, he honked his horn. i'm kinda stubborn so i just stayed in the house, and then he called from his cell phone all upset "I'm outside waiting for you!"


i told him i knew he was outside, i was waiting for him to get the hint and come to the door like a gentleman.


i dunno. i'd like to see a return of manners in general.


See...your example is one of modern but nasty behavior.


I think manners, in general, should always rule. However, when I hear the phrase "old fashioned" all I think of are good manners and effort in one direction > from the man to the woman. I know, this sounds unfair, but that's what I think. Usually, its formed in a statement like this; "I have old fashioned values. I expect the man to chase me, hold open the door, stand up when I enter the room, ask me out, call me, take care of me, etc. " But I never hear old fashioned behavior that goes the other direction (other than not having sex with him).


what kind of old fashioned behavior do you want to see from a woman?


None! Like I said, I think "old fashioned" behavior has no place in my life.
That being said, I expect civility from a woman. I expect to be treated equally (and I give the same). I expect to be treated the way SHE wants to be treated. No more no less. Again, to me, "old fashioned" behavior is sexism masked as good behavior. Sure, you get the door opened for you and the other nice things done for you but its done because you're a woman -If a man does this with old fashioned notions, he might also believe the negative values are also valid. The idea that you're weaker, not capable, not equipped for the outside world.


Modern civil behavior should cause people, without regard to gender, to do nice things for each other.
Ah good post Bocca.
- April 21st, 2009, 01:13 am
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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PY wrote :


For me....old or new behavior, I just want somebody who is respectful, courteous and kind...just like bocca was saying....a gentleman's rule normally consists things that he needs to do for the woman. A woman's rule of being a 'lady' is to LET a guy being a gentleman.


But yeah, if you asked us specifically what we want....we truly don't know the specifics anymore..but generally at least meet us half way....reciprocate our kindness, be kind to us....don't put yourself higher than us and want us to put you on pedestal (many women think that 'being a lady' equals having to be served to hand and foot)....


Rule of the thumb....if you like the treatment (being pampered, taken care of, being cooked or taken out to dinner, being spoiled, etc...) chances are he'd like it too. There will be some mixed up people who say guys don't like to be called, etc...to be informed that you enjoyed the date last night, etc...disregard those people just like we will disregard the women who get angry when we open the doors for them. Ya can never go wrong with courtesy...it goes both ways and it goes along ways!








*whining* there is no multiquote feature here so i am responding to both you and Bocca.


I don't want to be treated like some delicate flower ( LOL! ) but i do "give points" for lack of a better term- to men who have basic manners, and believe it or not, i am very polite. if i had a good time, i call and say so. on EH i respond to emails in a timely fashion.


i don't need a guy to walk me to my door- i'm from NJ. but it's still nice.


as far as being spoiled, i personally am uncomfortable with too much attention from a guy in that respect. i make my own money and am pretty successful, but i still am a woman who likes flowers, surprises (coffee in bed, clearing snow off my car)and a guy to make dinner for me.o


ETA: My point is i think i see manners in general as being "old fashioned" which is sad. if a guy i am interested doesn't have these qualities but will learn, than i'm ok with that. if they refuse because "it doesn't matter" or "it's stupid" then it's totally a dealbreaker.
- April 21st, 2009, 01:25 am
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Courtesy: if someone does a thing that is good, name it aloud. We can think "how nice that was!" privately, and with time the thing dies on the vine from insufficient attention.


Life really is too short to wait for second chances. If it is good, do it. If on the receiving end of the good, or observing the good being done,name it. Reciprocate when able.


"There isn't time--so brief is life--for bickerings, apologies, heartburnings, callings to account. There is only time for loving--& but an instant, so to speak, for that."-- Letter to Clara Spaulding, 8/20/1886, from Samuel Clemens





Perhaps not old fashioned, but most certainly old, words to live by. I am still only partially successful at it, but am still trying. Would you agree that civility is a form of loving one's fellow man? Or am I carrying the analogy too far, too late at night? (Jiminy, my muse is clearly getting restive tonight)


Thank you, PY and boccabum, for naming what you need. They are just the kind of thingsI would hope for, in return.While Imay aspire to be courteousalways, I am a rather stupid human after all and would like to do this better; with fewer errors and transgressions along the way.



- April 21st, 2009, 01:36 am
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scarlet13 wrote :

PY wrote :








ETA: My point is i think i see manners in general as being "old fashioned" which is sad. if a guy i am interested doesn't have these qualities but will learn, than i'm ok with that. if they refuse because "it doesn't matter" or "it's stupid" then it's totally a dealbreaker.
Wow. Good points! It is sad. So much the assumption I was making, that I titled the thread "old-fashioned", when I actually meant courtesy and respect.


and yeah, if someone just doesn't know but is working on it, he's got my attention and my willingness. Heck, it's what I'd hope for when I do something stupid or unintentionally rude--patience while I'm learning?


But just as you say, if they say "it's stupid", then we've got two totally different worldviews and it's time to suggest we part ways.
- April 21st, 2009, 01:45 am
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I have a bit of hope that I think after seeing so many threads that turn into 17 pages of gender war....we managed to actually achieve mutual understanding of how to treat each other nicely....within just a first page....there is hope! No problem Simplemind...glad to be able to offer our .02


Scarlet...no worries....trust me, many of us are more than willing to do little things that matter...very simple things that while not necessarily treat you like a fragile porcelain, they still reflect courtesy...(cooking dinner, spreading barkdust, etc...we do it gladly ).


Again...believe us...we happily do those things to you...the difference is this...some women look at those things as a 'plus'...but you wouldn't love us less if we 'forget' or we don't do it as much, (tired, busy, etc)...while some other women EXPECT these things as basic requirement that men have to do to always win their love and admiration.


Hope this is clear





- April 21st, 2009, 01:50 am
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lol just wanted to add i think now we need to quit while we're ahead LOL!!! If my prediction is correct...the naysayers and the war makers will start posting and before you know it we will back to square one.....so at least for Scarlet and Simple mind....pay attention to just the first two pages and only the good posts.....then we should be good!!


Some of us learn from experience....


nighty night everyone!
- April 21st, 2009, 01:52 am
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