Hi jordan,


This will be my last response (because, you are right we can argue over this forever and it's not exactly on point with the OP. Incidentally, I tried to this via a pm to you but your handle comes up as a blank page. Don't know if that's intentional on your point, or if something else is going on.)


Just to be clear, my only issue was with your first post where you stated that the OP was letting herself be used and that women who have casual sexual encounters do not respect themselves. You followed up with a post that said in relevant part: " Unless she's being r*ped, she's "allowing" him to use her, pure and simple." On this we are on completely opposite sides, and we can leave it at that.


I also disagree with you position that casual views on sex create more harm than good, although I will concede that far too many people are irresponsible, and that this irresponsibility often extends to sexual encounters. I give the benefit of the doubt that the poster would act responsibly in her "fling" or "hook up". Your statements suggest that you believe merely having the casual hook up is itself irresponsible. We can certainly agree to disagree on that.


I do agree with you that, generally speaking sex is far better between people with genuine feelings for each other, although we probably disagree on the required depth of experience. I can say from personal experience casual encounters can be very satisfying and passionate depending on the circumstance.


Regarding child support, raising children, etc. I never said nor implied that paying support was more difficult or even comparable to raising a child. My statement was in the context of your assertion (which you did not state as opinion but as fact) that the consequences of sex is more dangerous for women than men. I simply pointed out the flip side of that. If a man and woman have sex and the woman gets pregnant (neither planned for this nor particularly wanted a child at that time) the woman has all the rights. The man has only responsibility. I never said that the woman's choices were easy. They are terribly difficult. But they are her choices. She can choose to have an abortion. The man cannot force her to have one. Similarly the man has no right force her to continue the pregnancy if in fact he decided that he wanted to raise the child. On the other hand if he does not want the kid, but she decides to keep it, she can sue him for child support and he will be forced to pay child support but have no control over how the money is used. Everytime a man has sex with a woman he puts his entire future in her hands. Your situation is much different, as you stated. You and your wife chose to have three children. You divorced. You got custody of the children and she pays child support.


Please note: I am not suggesting that the father shouldn't pay child support, I'm saying that this is an extremely negative outcome and a very high risk. I initially stated it as datum that casual sex is just as risky if not more so for the man.


As for your last point, concerning misinterpretations on these forums, I agree completely. You and I both tend to state our opinions as fact, which in person may very well be understood as simply stating opinions, but in written form are much harder to interpret. The only view of yours that I think is factually wrong is your opinion that women who engage in casual sex are, by definition, "letting themselves be used" and "do not respect themselves". You are entitled to that opinion, but I believe that factually that opinion is wrong.


My opinion regarding sex is simple: I've never viewed sex as some precious commodity that women "give away" and men "take". Women take sexual pleasure just as much as men do. Similarly, men "give" as much as they "take".


I'll end on that note. As I said I tried to PM this, but couldn't.


_________


To travelbarb: I join Jordan in saying sorry for the detour, but I'm pretty sure we are done now.