Resolved: "Nice Guys" are not nice.


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pntherchk is offline pntherchk Post #41  February 27,2009, 4:40pm
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peg099,507775 wrote :

pntherchk,507759 wrote :


As for the comment about women saying it's that you're too nice when you break up, I think thats just like a guy saying he will call you. it's just something they say so that they don't hurt your feelings. It's much easier to say that you are just too nice than to say I'm not interested in you, or i'm really not that attracted to you. Just a thought.


I think sometimes it's also a way of saying "You're too concerned with people-pleasing and smothering instead of having a well-developed personality in your own right." Problem is, many of us (men and women) often have a hard time clearly articulating why we aren't comfortable around someone or what's missing. We sometimes know that the niceness feels 'icky' without fully understanding what it is that bugs us about it, so wepoint to something that's surface and general. We don't say 'you're overly concerned with my opinion' or 'you don't have a personality that's well-rounded enough'. We just know that the niceness feels creepy. Sometimes it takes a while after the fact to figure out the actual dynamic that was bugging us.
i think you just hit the nail on the head peg!
 
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RobInPlano is offline RobInPlano Post #42  February 27,2009, 4:42pm
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I think it's kind of sad that the term "nice guy" has been co-optedto mean"desperate guy".


Why can't we just say "desperate" when we mean "desperate" and let "nice" continue to mean "nice?
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #43  February 27,2009, 4:46pm
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jsbach,507778 wrote :

Peg, I love how youdefined nice guy verses a good man.


A good man may be perceived as being not nice at times. Because he may be doing the right thing, but not necessarily the popular thing.


Hmmm......I'm going to thinking about your words for a while.
Thanks.


And a good man will also often be perceived as being nice - because he is doing the right thing and treating people with kindness and integrity. But the difference is that he's doing it because it's the kind and respectful thing to do - not because it will 'get' (manipulate) someone into liking him. He's not doing it to earn approval. He's doing it because it flows naturally from his core values and who he is.
 
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hopefulone is offline hopefulone Post #44  February 27,2009, 4:46pm
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cp30,507690 wrote :

zal, I have been saying that for a long, long time.....more often than not....the "nice" guy, is really not that nice. And it just confuses the whole issue. I find the "manipulative" one to ring the most true in my experience.
Wow....no wonder you women are so cynical. You have every right to be. I am just glad some women have decided to date me and give me chance. Even though we didn't have much in common, at least they still respected me for being a good person and one of them has even remained a very good friend. One moved on. Another one just "keeps in touch" but has also been dating "the greener grass" on the other side, and have traced her to being in the hospital from bruises, haven broken up, and another who lies to her all the time... what she learned is the very definition of a Jerk.
 
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RobInPlano is offline RobInPlano Post #45  February 27,2009, 4:48pm
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peg099,507794 wrote :

And a good man will also often be perceived as being nice - because he is doing the right thing and treating people with kindness and integrity. But the difference is that he's doing it because it's the kind and respectful thing to do - not because it will 'get' (manipulate) someone into liking him. He's not doing it to earn approval. He's doing it because it flows naturally from his core values and who he is.

If he is perceived to be nice because his actions are nice, doesn't that make him nice?
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #46  February 27,2009, 4:49pm
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RobInPlano,507788 wrote :

I think it's kind of sad that the term "nice guy" has been co-optedto mean"desperate guy".


Why can't we just say "desperate" when we mean "desperate" and let "nice" continue to mean "nice?
Actually, I think it's been co-opted to mean 'people-pleasing' guy. ;-)


And a big part of that comes from all the 'nice guys' advertising their 'niceness' when they are really just trying to desperatelyget people to like them.
 
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vapsman88 is offline vapsman88 Post #47  February 27,2009, 4:52pm
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zal, wrote :

After reading (and participating) in other "nice guy" threads. I decided to start my own. Women say they want nice guys. They ask "Where are all the nice guys?" Meanwhile, the so-called "nice guys" complain that women only want to be their friends. They complain about women saying that they want nice guys, but then date "jerks". So, what gives? My premise is that so-called "nice guys" are NOT "nice". They are not nice because they have the following bad traits:


1. They are manipulative.


2. They are fundamentally dishonest.


3. They are weak.


4. They are smothering.


5. They are boring.


6. They are lifeless.


Any comments?
 
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RobInPlano is offline RobInPlano Post #48  February 27,2009, 4:54pm
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peg099,507802 wrote :

RobInPlano,507788 wrote :


I think it's kind of sad that the term "nice guy" has been co-optedto mean"desperate guy".


Why can't we just say "desperate" when we mean "desperate" and let "nice" continue to mean "nice?


Actually, I think it's been co-opted to mean 'people-pleasing' guy. ;-)


And a big part of that comes from all the 'nice guys' advertising their 'niceness' when they are really just trying to desperatelyget people to like them.
I guess what I'm getting at is that "nice" is a single adjective that describes a single character trait. It is acharactertrait that is shared by both the "good man" and the "insecure people pleaser". Being nice is a positive character attribute... not a negative one.


Personally, if someone's insecure, I'd rather they were an insecure nice person than an insecure jerk.
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #49  February 27,2009, 4:54pm
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RobInPlano,507797 wrote :

peg099,507794 wrote :


And a good man will also often be perceived as being nice - because he is doing the right thing and treating people with kindness and integrity. But the difference is that he's doing it because it's the kind and respectful thing to do - not because it will 'get' (manipulate) someone into liking him. He's not doing it to earn approval. He's doing it because it flows naturally from his core values and who he is.





If he is perceived to be nice because his actions are nice, doesn't that make him nice?
No. Women don't like to be manipulated any more than men do. So if a guy is 'being nice' in order to get what he wants - without regard for the other person - he is not nice.... er... good/decent.


Like I said before, the 'nice-guy' is in many ways the equivalent of the 'martyr'. Is a 'martyr' nice? I think most people have a negative reaction to anyone who is nice with an agenda.


Though perhaps women do react to that more strongly than men because we expect men to be 'stronger' whereas it has historically been more acceptable for women to define themselves based on their relationships with others. That would be an interesting question to ponder...
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #50  February 27,2009, 4:57pm
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hopefulone,507795 wrote :

cp30,507690 wrote :


zal, I have been saying that for a long, long time.....more often than not....the "nice" guy, is really not that nice. And it just confuses the whole issue. I find the "manipulative" one to ring the most true in my experience.


Wow....no wonder you women are so cynical. You have every right to be. I am just glad some women have decided to date me and give me chance. Even though we didn't have much in common, at least they still respected me for being a good person and one of them has even remained a very good friend. One moved on. Another one just "keeps in touch" but has also been dating "the greener grass" on the other side, and have traced her to being in the hospital from bruises, haven broken up, and another who lies to her all the time... what she learned is the very definition of a Jerk.
See, the thing is that many of us aren't all that cynical because we do know that there are men out there who are neither 'nice guys' nor 'jerks'. I think we're being realistic and aware that the 'nice guys' can in fact be wolves in sheep's clothing, but that doesn't mean we think all men are wolves. If we did, we wouldn't be looking for guys to date and have a relationship with
 
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