Fat women? Short men? Are YOU attractive?


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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #1  January 13,2009, 1:54pm
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Instead of going through the millionth thread about category X being attractive to gender Y I thought I'd give a more general response that applies to, well, all of these things.


A lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on self-image, the media, other people, and most importantly, lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' is.


I'll go through each of the first ones briefly first. Self image is pretty simple; people always find themselves less attractive than others do unless they have an extremely inflated ego. If you stop and think about this it's kind of obvious, especially with heterosexual people. Of course you don't find yourself attractive! Why would you? You're probably your own gender and related to yourself. Would you find a same sex sibling attractive (at the risk of grossing people out)? I doubt it. Your own body likely holds as much sex appeal to yourself as a relative of the same gender, in other words, practically none. Sure, you can compare yourself to others, but as far as "feeling" attractive the mechanism for it simply isn't there.


The media is where the "comparison" comes in. What people don't realize about the media is the whole point of media attraction is what looks good on camera . Quite a few supermodels and actors are almost plain or unhealthy looking in person. I know, it's hard to believe, but our perception of someone touched up, in perfect lighting, in the perfect position is going to be very different from that person walking through a local store. Faces and bodies that eat up a camera are not always as attractive in person, and primarily for reasons I'll explain a bit later relating to non-visual attraction mechanisms.


Others help define our self-perception more that most of us would like to admit. I've met many attractive people who believe themselves to be ugly simply because of how they've been perceived by others. Attention from the opposite sex helps build up or break down our self-perception of our own attraction. Since many people see very attractive people as "out of their league" plenty of otherwise gorgeous individuals see themselves as ugly or gross. It's also one of the reasons why you'll sometimes see an unattractive person with an extremely hot one; the unattractive person simply had the guts to approach the other individual. Attraction is a complex mechanism and other's opinions should be treated as just that...an opinion.


So what is attraction? Attraction is the "chemistry" that draws us towards others. It's not necessarily sexual in nature, although it often is. Even among the same sex people tend to attach positive qualities to the more attractive person even though they aren't sexually attracted to them.


Attraction is likewise not a static "number" that people often assign to it. It truly is in the eye of the beholder, no matter how cliche'. Think about it. Is your last girlfriend/boyfriend as attractive now than when you were first going out with them? Have you ever wondered what exactly you saw in them? Your own perception of their attractiveness changed over time based on a single factor; your emotional connection to them.


The problem is that there are more factors than this, a lot more. There's sight, sound, smell, mental association, emotional connection, nonverbal communication, personality, confidence; the list goes on and on. Ask any guy if there's a difference between their attraction to a woman normally and when she still has that fresh shampoo smell in their hair.


A magazine or TV show can't really replicate all the factors that influence attraction so they try to maximize the visual aspect. The reality, however, is that these things are only one of a whole list of factors that determine how attractive someone is. So why do we focus so much on it?


The point is this. Height, weight, hair color, eye color, blood type, astrological sign, dominant hand, whatever; all these things aren't deciding factors as to what people find attractive.


So I beg you. Implore you. Stop worrying so much about these things. They aren't important. I see the question all the time, "How will I know when 'X' factor is good enough for people to want to date me?"


The answer is..."Now." There isn't some magic weight or height you must attain before you're datable. That's not what is preventing you from finding someone. In order to find someone you must seek someone. I don't care if you're a guy or a girl. If you don't get out there and try, concentrating not on what can go wrong but on what can go right, it doesn't matter if you're the hottest person on the planet.


Don't wait for it to happen. Make it happen.


After all, it's the people who are willing to do just that others find irresistable anyway .


Jacquesne
 
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Squire is offline Squire Post #2  January 13,2009, 1:57pm
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is "wookin' pa nub in aww da wong pwaces, wookin' pa nub..."

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I have perfect symmetry.
Like a sphere?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #3  January 13,2009, 2:09pm
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“A lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on self-image, the media, other people, and most importantly, lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' [/b]is.”[/b][/b]
I think a lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on personal experience, specifically how others have treated us. This takes the form of overt hostility (“don’t pick fatso, he can’t even run around the bases&rdquo and covert, but measurable, differential treatment (not being invited to play golf with some co-workers.) In either case, that is the opposite[/i] of “lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' is.”
 
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andrea12345 is offline andrea12345 Post #4  January 13,2009, 2:38pm
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Jacquesne, wrote :

Instead of going through the millionth thread about category X being attractive to gender Y I thought I'd give a more general response that applies to, well, all of these things.


A lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on self-image, the media, other people, and most importantly, lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' is.


I'll go through each of the first ones briefly first. Self image is pretty simple; people always find themselves less attractive than others do unless they have an extremely inflated ego. If you stop and think about this it's kind of obvious, especially with heterosexual people. Of course you don't find yourself attractive! Why would you? You're probably your own gender and related to yourself. Would you find a same sex sibling attractive (at the risk of grossing people out)? I doubt it. Your own body likely holds as much sex appeal to yourself as a relative of the same gender, in other words, practically none. Sure, you can compare yourself to others, but as far as "feeling" attractive the mechanism for it simply isn't there.


The media is where the "comparison" comes in. What people don't realize about the media is the whole point of media attraction is what looks good on camera . Quite a few supermodels and actors are almost plain or unhealthy looking in person. I know, it's hard to believe, but our perception of someone touched up, in perfect lighting, in the perfect position is going to be very different from that person walking through a local store. Faces and bodies that eat up a camera are not always as attractive in person, and primarily for reasons I'll explain a bit later relating to non-visual attraction mechanisms.


Others help define our self-perception more that most of us would like to admit. I've met many attractive people who believe themselves to be ugly simply because of how they've been perceived by others. Attention from the opposite sex helps build up or break down our self-perception of our own attraction. Since many people see very attractive people as "out of their league" plenty of otherwise gorgeous individuals see themselves as ugly or gross. It's also one of the reasons why you'll sometimes see an unattractive person with an extremely hot one; the unattractive person simply had the guts to approach the other individual. Attraction is a complex mechanism and other's opinions should be treated as just that...an opinion.


So what is attraction? Attraction is the "chemistry" that draws us towards others. It's not necessarily sexual in nature, although it often is. Even among the same sex people tend to attach positive qualities to the more attractive person even though they aren't sexually attracted to them.


Attraction is likewise not a static "number" that people often assign to it. It truly is in the eye of the beholder, no matter how cliche'. Think about it. Is your last girlfriend/boyfriend as attractive now than when you were first going out with them? Have you ever wondered what exactly you saw in them? Your own perception of their attractiveness changed over time based on a single factor; your emotional connection to them.


The problem is that there are more factors than this, a lot more. There's sight, sound, smell, mental association, emotional connection, nonverbal communication, personality, confidence; the list goes on and on. Ask any guy if there's a difference between their attraction to a woman normally and when she still has that fresh shampoo smell in their hair.


A magazine or TV show can't really replicate all the factors that influence attraction so they try to maximize the visual aspect. The reality, however, is that these things are only one of a whole list of factors that determine how attractive someone is. So why do we focus so much on it?


The point is this. Height, weight, hair color, eye color, blood type, astrological sign, dominant hand, whatever; all these things aren't deciding factors as to what people find attractive.


So I beg you. Implore you. Stop worrying so much about these things. They aren't important. I see the question all the time, "How will I know when 'X' factor is good enough for people to want to date me?"


The answer is..."Now." There isn't some magic weight or height you must attain before you're datable. That's not what is preventing you from finding someone. In order to find someone you must seek someone. I don't care if you're a guy or a girl. If you don't get out there and try, concentrating not on what can go wrong but on what can go right, it doesn't matter if you're the hottest person on the planet.


Don't wait for it to happen. Make it happen.


After all, it's the people who are willing to do just that others find irresistable anyway .


Jacquesne
hey good for you. I believe you've made the point i've been trying to make. supermodels are not real and attraction is a really tough thing to get a handle on based on a still photo and some words in a profile. I find people in real life to be immenselymore attractive than photos on EH, even the really not attrtactive men can be qute endearing in real life. I thknk we ascribe characteristics to photos and profiles that we don't ascribe to people in real life becasue we can actually see them. In fact somewhere there apparen;ty was a study that blurry photos on datiing sites were judged more attrtactive. Why? becasue viewers filled in the "blanks" wth their own personal ffeatuer preferences.


That's why i think the weight thing has so much more meaning online than in real life.
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #5  January 13,2009, 2:47pm
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“A lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on self-image, the media, other people, and most importantly, lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' [/b] is.” [/b] [/b]
I think a lot of the insecurity related to attraction is based on personal experience, specifically how others have treated us. This takes the form of overt hostility (“don’t pick fatso, he can’t even run around the bases&rdquo and covert, but measurable, differential treatment (not being invited to play golf with some co-workers.) In either case, that is the opposite[/i] of “lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' is.”
I disagree, as I explained in my OP. Attraction is not a set factor. It changes depending on how we feel towards someone. For instance, the girl I just stopped dating was very hot until I discovered she was a shallow, insecure, and mean person. Now I'm not attracted to her at all.


If people treat you poorly it doesn't mean you're ugly. It could simply mean you're different. This is far more common. For whatever reason you don't fit into those specific people's vision of the "norm" and thus, to them, you are not attractive.


To someone similar to you, however, they won't see you that way. The same things those people found repulsive that person will view as irresistible.


If you believe that others can accuratly judge whether or not you are "attractive" then the treatment you receive is important to your self perception of your own attractiveness. If you understand attraction is a value judgement, not a concrete, measurable quantity, other's opinions are irrelevent.


Here's an example. I personally think Picasso's art sucks. Nothing in it is attractive to me. It looks funky, it seems lazy, and I've never like it nor most 'modern' art styles. Every art critic in the world can decry my opinion, everyone I know could say I'm crazy, and people can sit and argue the artistic talent incorporated into his "style" and it would still look like crap to me. Beauty is a value judgment, and how many people agree with that judgment doesn't alter the fact it's still nothing but an opinion.


Perhaps it's my own limitation but I don't see how other people's opinions of my "beauty" affects me. If the girl I love finds me attractive everyone else could find me a horrible monster and it wouldn't matter. But if I believe them, if I accept their opinion about my "value," why would I even bother asking that girl out? Obviously she'd turn me down, I have 'X' negative quality!


By "lack of knowledge about what 'attraction' is " I meant that attaction is a value judgment, not a measurable quantity. If others treat you poorly because of your appearance it doesn't tell you anything about you , it only tells you about them.


So, I stand by my argument that insecurity about attraction is largly based on misunderstanding what attraction is, treating it as a static fact instead of a mutable opinion.


So there .


Jacquesne
 
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Oregon_Coast_Guy is offline Oregon_Coast_Guy Post #6  January 13,2009, 3:44pm
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Of course I'm attractive!! lol...
 
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PY is offline PY Post #7  January 13,2009, 3:58pm

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lol.
 
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trailviews is offline trailviews Post #8  January 13,2009, 4:08pm
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The tall, relatively attractive youngster has no clue what he's talking about.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #9  January 13,2009, 4:22pm
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“If you understand attraction is a value judgement, not a concrete, measurable quantity, other's opinions are irrelevent.”[/b]
An individual’s opinion is irrelevant. A pattern of opinion is, or ought to be, respected. (If I have lost ten jobs for ‘being a slacker,” then I am a slacker. At the very least, there is a disconnect between my perception of myself and a norm[/i] expressed by those acquaintances I’ve had.)
“Slacker” is a value judgment, but also an implied objective reality: it means “there are others who will do more work for the same money."
If a pattern exists whereby potential partners will not accept me, that is[/i] a collective judgment of my desirability. Assuming these partners are those I would seek, I either need to lower my standards (thus admitting my unattractiveness), or raise my desirability though some method of self-improvement. No?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #10  January 13,2009, 4:22pm
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The tall, relatively attractive youngster has no clue what he's talking about.
I don’t? What part?
 
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