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chadra83 chadra83 is offline
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I agree on Abjons point of view


def nothing wrong with a feminist, as long as she's nice, (I tend to look for a nice, kindhearted girl/lady, everything else is secondary, including looks :P)
- September 11th, 2008, 11:49 am
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dlc872 dlc872 is offline
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Rand_011 wrote :

LawyerDan: Your statement: "This is not true. It is clear that the driving force behind Palin being in the position that she is, is that she is a woman. Men never get their spot purely because they are a man and nothing else." ... Is very easy to poke holes in ... Especially since the Democrats nominee is a member of a minority.


I can change the statement to apply to Obama, and it would 'hold as much water' as it does with reference to Palin.


If, on the other hand, Obama had been in the US Senate for 30 years, the comparison would not be valid, but that is not the case.


They are both rookies. One is a woman, one is a man ... One is white, one is black ... You can argue all day/night long which is worse to discriminate for/against and you will likely not come to any agreement.
Except for this... Obama was selected after a long and challenging primary process where he successfully convinced over 18 million people to vote for him over the favored candidate. Palin was selected by one guy with the help of a few advisors.


- September 11th, 2008, 11:57 am
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graceventually graceventually is offline
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I'm not interested in arguing about whether it is worse to discriminate on the basis of race or gender (both are illegal, after all), but I do think that if we're honest, we've got to admit that part of what has gotten Obama where he is is a compelling personal biography, and that includes his race. And, part of what John McCain was looking for was a VP selection whose biography and appearance would create some new excitement; and Sarah Palin's gender is a large part of what she brings to that equation.


Oh, and some weird stuff has been said from the pulpits of both of their churches. There are some "out there" preachers out there. Whatever else I've done, I'vemanaged not to have a sermon humiliated on YouTube, at least. (Maybe I should ask for a raise...)


Now that we've said this about both sides, can the candidates shut up about commonly used quips about lipstick and get back to the issues? It's 9/11. I'm looking forward to seeing that televised forum tonight with both Obama and McCain, and I hope what we'll hear from both will be thoughtful, substantive, and direct.


Stepping off my soapbox now....
- September 11th, 2008, 11:58 am
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LawyerDan LawyerDan is offline
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Rand_011 wrote :

LawyerDan: Your statement: "This is not true. It is clear that the driving force behind Palin being in the position that she is, is that she is a woman. Men never get their spot purely because they are a man and nothing else." ... Is very easy to poke holes in ... Especially since the Democrats nominee is a member of a minority.


I can change the statement to apply to Obama, and it would 'hold as much water' as it does with reference to Palin.


If, on the other hand, Obama had been in the US Senate for 30 years, the comparison would not be valid, but that is not the case.


They are both rookies. One is a woman, one is a man ... One is white, one is black ... You can argue all day/night long which is worse to discriminate for/against and you will likely not come to any agreement.
I wasn't siding with one or the other, just that a poster above used palin as an example for women. I believe both got their positions based on either gender or race and not qualifications or experience. I was just pointing out that one cant complain how differently women are scrutinized since in this case a woman was given her position just because she was a woman.
- September 11th, 2008, 12:21 pm
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AZTallGuy AZTallGuy is offline
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dlc872 wrote :

Rand_011 wrote :


LawyerDan: Your statement: "This is not true. It is clear that the driving force behind Palin being in the position that she is, is that she is a woman. Men never get their spot purely because they are a man and nothing else." ... Is very easy to poke holes in ... Especially since the Democrats nominee is a member of a minority.


I can change the statement to apply to Obama, and it would 'hold as much water' as it does with reference to Palin.


If, on the other hand, Obama had been in the US Senate for 30 years, the comparison would not be valid, but that is not the case.


They are both rookies. One is a woman, one is a man ... One is white, one is black ... You can argue all day/night long which is worse to discriminate for/against and you will likely not come to any agreement.


Except for this... Obama was selected after a long and challenging primary process where he successfully convinced over 18 million people to vote for him over the favored candidate. Palin was selected by one guy with the help of a few advisors.

Uh, I think we are forgetting who is running for president here - McCain. He has way more experience and character than Obama, Biden, Palin combined. That's why I think in the end McCain will win, but it will be close.


The likelihood and probability Palin will be president during McCain's 4 or 8 years is still slim. But no matter who wins if she sticks with it and works hard, maybe she can get a spot in congress or run for pres in 4 to 8 years. This VP pick is simply an opportunity for her, nothing more right now- but she has to work hard and do something with it. The hype will die down and her true character and telents will settle in. Only then will we find out how bad she wants it.


Hillary is the one who got the short end. She had a bad campaign manager. She was the one I wanted in office and the one I thought was the most qualified. I am still a little bitter over her getting snubbed. She worked way harder than Palin and paid her dues, yet she has to sit there and watch some woman who was handed a gift make history instead of her.


I have to admit though the strategy of McCain picking a woman in Palin while Obama snubbed Hillary worked on me. I switched over and am voting McCain.
- September 13th, 2008, 02:21 am
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Dear AZTallGuy,


It does seem Obama made a huge mis-step in not selecting Hillary as his running mate. There's been many people who have commented to this effect. I personally think it will cost him the election but time will tell. Hillary does have a lot of supporters - many of whom are going to the McCain ticket like you are.


Apparently, his dislike of her is greater than his desire to be President. Perhaps here is a case where he, "Cut off his nose to spite his face," to quote that old adage. A rookie mistake which McCain did not make.


JavaJava5
- September 13th, 2008, 08:16 am
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shulamit shulamit is offline
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graceventually wrote :

I dunno...this whole thread makes me sad. It's too bad that we associate the proud history of women's suffrage and women's legal rights with behavior that puts men down and is otherwise difficult for people to deal with - or behavior that puts down the important work of women who choose not to work outside the home. I recognize that some feminists bear some of the responsibility for this state of affairs, too; but it's too bad. There were a lot of good women and men who devoted much time and energy to making things better for the next generation of women; and it's unfortunate that the label they proudly applied to their way of thinking has such negative connotations now.


I am in a male-dominated profession (which I enjoy,and I've got some awesome colleagues of both genders) and I often reflect on how fortunate I am to live in a time and place where I have the opportunity to do this. I'm thankful to be a part of a church that has ordained women for over 50 years. I recognize that my path isn't possible even today for women in some denominations, which I think is very sad. I think those faith groups need a few more feminists in their ranks, myself....
You see this regrettable hijacking of language and negative word associations that has been perfected by the neocons. For example, "liberal" - when did this fine term and appelation become negative? Even more so "conservative"? Why would you apply the term " conservative" which implies to me the sage conservation of natural resources to the Religious Wrong and their planet-destroying, corporate welfare loving, " kill-'em-all-let-god-sort-'em-out" world bullying and domestic "Bill of Rights" destruction.


Proud to be liberal feminist!
- September 14th, 2008, 09:45 am
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shulamit shulamit is offline
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javajava5 wrote :

Dear AZTallGuy,


It does seem Obama made a huge mis-step in not selecting Hillary as his running mate. There's been many people who have commented to this effect. I personally think it will cost him the election but time will tell. Hillary does have a lot of supporters - many of whom are going to the McCain ticket like you are.


Apparently, his dislike of her is greater than his desire to be President. Perhaps here is a case where he, "Cut off his nose to spite his face," to quote that old adage. A rookie mistake which McCain did not make.


JavaJava5
Now Java Java 5, I always, without fail, read your postings with hypnotic attention but I am forced to demur here. I liked Hillary ( and always liked Obama as well) but going to the McCain ticket? As the classic prayer suggests, if I risk losing my right hand if I should ever forget Jerusalem then I should lose my left if that hand if it ever pulls the lever for Mcain and the arch-horror Palin.


And then it would be difficult for me to post positions that you would take askance. Would that not be a loss? You would miss me. Admit it.
- September 14th, 2008, 12:22 pm
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