Dating Women Who Are Victims of R.pe or Physical Abuse


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saulgoode is offline saulgoode Post #1  December 12,2008, 6:04am
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Another topic woke this up in me yesterday, and last night I tossed under the full moon about it, me and the dogs, up at 330AM, all of us pacing around wagging our tails and pis.sing in the back yard.


It's shocking, really. Shocking. I've dated women who were tied up in the shower, held at knifepoint, drugged, and who sat on the stand and testified against their husband, about what he'd done with their daughter. One girl's jaw popped from where her ex had broken it.


When I worked at Blockbuster, back in college, this lady came in, left with three movies, and thirty minutes later came back for an exchange. The left side of her face was beat to h.ll. We asked about calling the cops, she said, No, and after she left, we all stood around the computer looking at the address, 6101 Circle R, and reckoning whether we should take care of it ourselves. We didn't, but that was his address, by God. Threat of conviction was the only thing stopping us, too.


I'd hazard thatnone of the guys on this site arelike that, and certainly only a small percentage of the guys in the world are like that. But they sure get around. And they do a lot of damage to those women.


I married one. We divorced. During the counseling prior to the divorce, during our first session, the counselor looked at her and said, "That doesn't sound like normal se.xual behavior. Are you a r.pe victim?"


I can do the same thing. You can tell who they are. They're different. Most women can recall a dangerous moment with a guy, or an uncomfortable encounter, but I'm not talking about an awkward date, or next-day remorse. I'm talking about hardcore Lifetime Originals, which always involve either mol.estation, r.pe, or violence against a woman or their children. I'm talking about being r.ped and wondering whether he was going to let you live. I'm talking about walking for an hour before someone finally picks you up, with you holding your shirt together with broken nails.


When you're sixteen.


Anyway. Just saying that these women really are different. You have to treat them with a lot more tenderness than a woman who's never lost her innocence.


However, the trust you earn is on a far deeper level. You have to want it. You have to earn it. It takes a lot of time and patience.


But once you find that trust in her, it's both beautiful and fragile. I wish I'd fully appreciated this while I was married.


Especially that fragile part.


- Saul
 
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Vaire1967 is offline Vaire1967 Post #2  December 12,2008, 6:58am
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Thanks for sharing that, Saul. i haven't met a man with such understanding and insight yet.


Do you think if you had this awareness when you were married things would have endured?
 
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meg731 is offline meg731 Post #3  December 12,2008, 7:14am
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It's really nice to see someone, a man specifically, be aware and understanding of this topic. I have met many men who want and try to understandand while I'm sure their heart is in the right place they frequentlygive up when they realize how incredibly difficult it is to be with someone who has been broken this way.


I'm glad you brought this topic up Saul. I'm impressed by your understanding of it and look forward to see what some of the other men around here say.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #4  December 12,2008, 7:31am
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Well thought and well said, Saul.
 
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CasseCouer is offline CasseCouer Post #5  December 12,2008, 7:44am
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Amazing insight, Saul. It lifted my heart to read this. Not knowing you at all, I was expecting a post about how hard it is to get past the protective walls abuse survivors build, how tough it is to deal with the emotional ups & downs, the why isn't she over this yet attitude. It is beyond nice to know there are others who understand and appreciate just what this does to women. It truly sucks your spirit, soul, heart right out of you & you have to learn how to live, laugh, trust & love all over again.


None of my business, so just a question for you to answer to yourself: does your ex-wife know that you realize all this, that you appreciate it? If not, and if you're in a position to tell her, I'd be willing to bet it would mean a lot to her. People who understand the effects of abuse, without direct experience, are rare -males who do are even rarer, a male you knew/know intimately is practically unheard of. I've talked with literally hundreds of abuse survivors on the support boards & while I'd never claim to know it all, that is one thing I've heard over & over. Bless you, Saul!
 
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DreamingOfAtlantis is offline DreamingOfAtlantis Post #6  December 12,2008, 7:44am
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I've dated a few women who have been molested or raped. One women said someone tried to attack her, grabbed her and was on top of her, so she just, partly out of panic, partly out of plan, defficated in her pants immediately. She said she blacked out so she doesn't remember what happened, but looking back and knowing her as I did, I suspect she was raped because if she had scared him off, knowing her ego, she'd remember it as her being a hero, but she had other situations where she would just "forget" whatever she didn't want to remember.


In another case I was dating a woman and our 2nd date was on Christmas. I drove over to pick her up and when she let me into her house for just a minute or two, I saw her Christmas tree and it was like a siren went off in my head and something said, "She's been sexually abused." At the time I had just started working in residential treatment, so I was dealing with it but had very little experience with that situation. People ask me, over and over, how I could tell from looking at her Christmas tree. I can't give you a fully logical explanation, but I think part of it was a certain precision or pattern to all the ornaments, as if she needed some type of order in her life. When it finally became time for her to tell me that she had been molested multiple times as a child, it was tough for me to sit and listen to her story, in part because I already *knew* she had been molested, but I also knew I had to let her tell me, I could not tell her that I knew it.


The first woman claimed to be quite randy and always talked about how she was so good and knew all these obscure techniques, but had only a few partners and this definitely effected her sexual behavior. The second one had gone through a number of stages along the way that can be expected by someone who's SOS (Survivor of Sexual abuse). In her case, though, at one point she realized she was destroying herself and got counseling. She had vague memories but no clue as to who the abuser was. She would disassociate during stressful arguments -- in other words, just blank out. Many SOS women do that -- it was their way of dealing with the abuse by just not being there. A more extreme form of that is MPD (multiple personality disorder) which comes from creating personalities to protect her when this happens.


This kind of stuff can mess up a person for life and, in the case of chid molestation, will have serious reprecussions on her sex life and all her relationships from then on. Sometimes it teaches a young girl that the only thing she has of value is to let men have sex with her, other times it teaches them sex is painful, so they avoid it.


If I met a woman and we started dating and I found out she was SOS but had known to get counseling and was dealing with it, I'd have no issue with dating her, but, honestly, I tend to pick this stuff up as if I had radar and would know if that were the case after the first date or so. On the other hand, if she had gone through that and was not seeking help and did not want to deal with the problem, I'd stay away. I've seen, in personal life and when working in treatment, what can happen to a woman who has been through this. For someone who does not get treatment, she can use sex to control, or be scared of it, or be unwilling to sleep in a bed (I knew one woman who didn't have a bed and slept on her couch because the abuse happened in a bed and she just couldn't sleep in one anymore), or even have flashbacks during sex. If someone is not willing to get help for an issue like this, there is almost no way they're going to be able to have a healthy sexual relationship with a loving partner.


On the other hand, I think my relationship with the woman who had been abused was much closer than most of my relationships because I was working with her on dealing with that entire issue.
 
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single_father is offline single_father Post #7  December 12,2008, 8:24am
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My first wife was repeated molested by her stepfather. We were married for 7 years, and she didn't get up the nerve to tell me until after our divorce when she invited me to join her for a therapist appointment. We met in college, and she wanted to wait until after marriage before being physically intimate. I went along with her request. I strongly suspect getting away from her molester was one of the reasons she wanted to get married while we were still in college. Unfortunately after the wedding I was too inexperienced to realize things were not right. Being open allowed us to get beyond the pain of the divorce and we have since become very good friends.


I can only reiterate what saulgoode said about such victims really are different. You have to treat them with a lot more tenderness than a woman who's never lost her innocence. Her second husband knew the situation, and they have had a 25 year marriage so far.
 
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PY is offline PY Post #8  December 12,2008, 8:32am

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I have a question...In many situation, exercising forgiveness is necessary and it's done for our own sake, not for the other person. However, I have a dilemma when dealing with r.pe or abuse surivors....Part of me wants to tell the person to 'forgive' so that the person can live more freely...however, in this situation, I feel like I have no rights to tell (or suggest)a survivorto forgive (although I think it's essential), since I was not in that situation...I was not there and especiallyas a guy, it would be very selfish for me to say 'forgive'.


Any thoughts?
 
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CasseCouer is offline CasseCouer Post #9  December 12,2008, 8:50am
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PY,377648 wrote :

I have a question...In many situation, exercising forgiveness is necessary and it's done for our own sake, not for the other person. However, I have a dilemma when dealing with r.pe or abuse surivors....Part of me wants to tell the person to 'forgive' so that the person can live more freely...however, in this situation, I feel like I have no rights to tell (or suggest)a survivorto forgive (although I think it's essential), since I was not in that situation...I was not there and especiallyas a guy, it would be very selfish for me to say 'forgive'.


Any thoughts?

PY, my thoughts: just be there & support her decisions, do not tell her how she should walk the healing path- it's a very personal journey. Most survivors are very sensitive to what they perceive as others trying to control them, even if well intentioned. She should have a therapist if she's trying to heal- let them do the suggesting & guiding. Just let her know you care, and offer your shoulder. (She being a general term)
 
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LavenderFields is offline LavenderFields Post #10  December 12,2008, 9:15am
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Wow, I am floored. I have been living under a rock or something, by the sounds of it, I didn't know it was that common (sexual abuse). I am blessed I have never had anything bad happen to me sexually, and I certainly don't have the eye to pick it up based on what has been said here.


Thanks for opening my eyes Saul.
 
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