Should You Date a Former Cheater?

Should You Date a Former Cheater?

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Should You Date a Former Cheater?


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abnoba is offline abnoba Post #81  October 6,2008, 1:00pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

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PosiTiv65,284643 wrote :

abnoba,284509 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284504 wrote :


To compare to someone starving and stealing foodis not logical. It's no where near the same thing.


This is where rather than merely trying to win debating points you should reflect more deeply on the real relationshp between the "morality" of the starving man and cheating man. If you did take this time to explore the similarities you may come to realize that as a rule of thumb when we seek to make moral judgments on behavior x or y that we usually do so based on ignorance of the conditons that to these decisions, either an inadvertent or deliberate ignorance.


Not trying to win anything.....I place no "point value" on any conversation here. My prior point in this thread was simply that cheating is in fact a CHOICE. Just like stealing or not stealing is a CHOICE. The reasons you make those choices are varied and complex - yes, but they are still choices. To say that we are not responsible for ourchoices is something I simply don't beleive in.
By now you know why I think you are deluding yourself. I have raiseed more than enough points to cause someone like yourself to at least begin question her certainties and her conviction that cheating is simply a question of moral choice. It is no where near as simple as you would like it to be, no where near as black and white, good and evil. But I also recognize that for someone like yourself to look at this from a larger perspective is too much to ask of you. For now, at least, being the victim offers more comfort to you. So be it.
 
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abnoba is offline abnoba Post #82  October 6,2008, 1:03pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

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PosiTiv65,284650 wrote :

abnoba,284516 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284511 wrote :


abnoba,284506 wrote :


jamesp81,284472 wrote :


"Should You Date a Former Cheater?"


That depends on whether or not she's actually a 'former' cheater.


Idon't assume if I date someone who once cheated on someone that he will cheat on me. What heppened in a prievious relationship does not have any bearing on what will happen in our relationship.


I really, truly hope you do find this to be true in your life.


How many times have we head that the best way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior?


We have heard said it often. But repeating a lie often does not make it a truth.


that's assuming one believes it is a lie in the first place. Can you not see that perhaps some of the "literature" you base your beliefs on might also not be true or accurate?


I'll be sure to letthe many, many people I work with know that they should stop their work right now because analyzing historical data to identify trends in behavior can't predict what might happen in the future. Unfortunately, I 've seen it proven outfar too many times to believe that we are simply repeating a lie.
Analysing historical macro trends is not what we are talking about here. I think you know this is so.
 
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abnoba is offline abnoba Post #83  October 6,2008, 1:05pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

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tweet37,284670 wrote :

It makes me wonder if they themself are a cheater and they're just trying to validate their situation.
So the cheap shots begin...pretty lame effort at rebuttal!
 
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abnoba is offline abnoba Post #84  October 6,2008, 1:10pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

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Cheating is symptomatic of a broken marriage. It is one response on par with letting yourself go,withnot being there for the other person,with being cold and distant, with puting the kids before your spouse, with puting the job before the spouse, with putting your parents before the spouse. No worse, no better. Simply a conditioned response to a relationship that has been poisoned. Change the conditions. Restore love to the relationshp and the cheating will end. Different circumstances different responses.
 
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Linda is offline Linda Post #85  October 6,2008, 1:27pm

needs to visit eHA more often!!

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istillbelieve,283781 wrote :

Linda,283691 wrote :


RRoland,283611 wrote :


I believe that once a divorcee always a divorcee. The stats bear this out. Second marriages have a much lower probability of success than the first. The longer someone was married before getting divorced the more suspect they are in my eyes.


I know what you mean by "the longer someone was married..."


I've dated quite a few men who had long marriages before getting divorced. Most of them had stories about how the last 10+ years they slept in separate bedrooms, they didn't have s* x for XX number of years, and on and on......


.....and you believed them ???
Hummm, I must have missed where I said I believed them.


They were, after all, just "stories" which I took with a certain amount of suspicion......
 
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abnoba is offline abnoba Post #86  October 6,2008, 1:29pm

I just found out my gramma died. I feel so very sad. I will miss her a lot.

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abnoba,284675 wrote :

PosiTiv65,284650 wrote :


abnoba,284516 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284511 wrote :


abnoba,284506 wrote :


jamesp81,284472 wrote :


"Should You Date a Former Cheater?"


That depends on whether or not she's actually a 'former' cheater.


Idon't assume if I date someone who once cheated on someone that he will cheat on me. What heppened in a prievious relationship does not have any bearing on what will happen in our relationship.


I really, truly hope you do find this to be true in your life.


How many times have we head that the best way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior?


We have heard said it often. But repeating a lie often does not make it a truth.


that's assuming one believes it is a lie in the first place. Can you not see that perhaps some of the "literature" you base your beliefs on might also not be true or accurate?


I'll be sure to letthe many, many people I work with know that they should stop their work right now because analyzing historical data to identify trends in behavior can't predict what might happen in the future. Unfortunately, I 've seen it proven outfar too many times to believe that we are simply repeating a lie.


Analysing historical macro trends is not what we are talking about here. I think you know this is so.
Mind you if you feel you can predict the future based on knowing the consequences of past decisions and conditions you do realize don't you that you are helping me make my argument about conditons and behavior. You see if free will was completely operative there would be no way to predict how people would respond to a given set of conditoners. But we all know, including your colleagues, that give situation x that y will likely follow. Operative both on micro and macro world.
 
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PosiTiv65 is offline PosiTiv65 Post #87  October 6,2008, 1:45pm
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abnoba,284674 wrote :

PosiTiv65,284643 wrote :


abnoba,284509 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284504 wrote :


To compare to someone starving and stealing foodis not logical. It's no where near the same thing.


This is where rather than merely trying to win debating points you should reflect more deeply on the real relationshp between the "morality" of the starving man and cheating man. If you did take this time to explore the similarities you may come to realize that as a rule of thumb when we seek to make moral judgments on behavior x or y that we usually do so based on ignorance of the conditons that to these decisions, either an inadvertent or deliberate ignorance.


Not trying to win anything.....I place no "point value" on any conversation here. My prior point in this thread was simply that cheating is in fact a CHOICE. Just like stealing or not stealing is a CHOICE. The reasons you make those choices are varied and complex - yes, but they are still choices. To say that we are not responsible for ourchoices is something I simply don't beleive in.


By now you know why I think you are deluding yourself. I have raiseed more than enough points to cause someone like yourself to at least begin question her certainties and her conviction that cheating is simply a question of moral choice. It is no where near as simple as you would like it to be, no where near as black and white, good and evil. But I also recognize that for someone like yourself to look at this from a larger perspective is too much to ask of you. For now, at least, being the victim offers more comfort to you. So be it.
You've "jumped the shark" at this point.You have raised nothing that makes me queston my convictions. I'm glad you think you know so much about me that you can make such a certain statement that you know what is too much for me. Not once did i ever state I am a victim - don't have a clue where you are getting that from. Just because I don't agree with you - you feel you have the right to sit in judgement. Sweet.


You need to be open to the possibility that your absolute certainty that you are right about all of this and everyone else is wrong might just be a position you will laugh about 20 years from now. I too had different points of view at one point in life and many were changed as I grew older. That's not a slam at your age, just a simple statement that people do grow and change as they live life. Well, hopefully they do.
 
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PosiTiv65 is offline PosiTiv65 Post #88  October 6,2008, 1:49pm
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abnoba,284704 wrote :

abnoba,284675 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284650 wrote :


abnoba,284516 wrote :


PosiTiv65,284511 wrote :


abnoba,284506 wrote :


jamesp81,284472 wrote :


"Should You Date a Former Cheater?"


That depends on whether or not she's actually a 'former' cheater.


Idon't assume if I date someone who once cheated on someone that he will cheat on me. What heppened in a prievious relationship does not have any bearing on what will happen in our relationship.


I really, truly hope you do find this to be true in your life.


How many times have we head that the best way to predict future behavior is to look at past behavior?


We have heard said it often. But repeating a lie often does not make it a truth.


that's assuming one believes it is a lie in the first place. Can you not see that perhaps some of the "literature" you base your beliefs on might also not be true or accurate?


I'll be sure to letthe many, many people I work with know that they should stop their work right now because analyzing historical data to identify trends in behavior can't predict what might happen in the future. Unfortunately, I 've seen it proven outfar too many times to believe that we are simply repeating a lie.


Analysing historical macro trends is not what we are talking about here. I think you know this is so.


Mind you if you feel you can predict the future based on knowing the consequences of past decisions and conditions you do realize don't you that you are helping me make my argument about conditons and behavior. You see if free will was completely operative there would be no way to predict how people would respond to a given set of conditoners. But we all know, including your colleagues, that give situation x that y will likely follow. Operative both on micro and macro world.

Please read my statement - that you can predict what MIGHT happen in the future. It's not a foregone conclusion. you can, as a person, look to your past and determine where you might be in the future if you repeat certain behaviors. You then have a CHOICE to not repeat those behaviors and therefore change your future from what was predicted. As I said in an earlier post, I think people who cheat CAN change - as long as they understand why they cheated. They then have to make an effort to not repeat the pattern.
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #89  October 6,2008, 3:16pm
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abnoba,284680 wrote :

tweet37,284670 wrote :


It makes me wonder if they themself are a cheater and they're just trying to validate their situation.


So the cheap shots begin...pretty lame effort at rebuttal!
Not a rebuttal at all, just an observation that raised a question.Is that a yes?
 
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luvablefrog is offline luvablefrog Post #90  October 6,2008, 4:31pm
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abnoba,284539 wrote :

PosiTiv65,284525 wrote :


I agree with the it takes two to make/break a marriage. But it only takes ONE to make CHOICE to cheat.





It almost never happens this way: Some guy or girl wakes up and thinks to him or herself I am going to cheat today or tomorrow. No, It happened because a whole set of known and unknown conditions came together that lead to the act we call cheating. Given the same set of conditions we too would have responded the same way. What separates the cheater from the non cheater are different circumstances not morality or ethics.


The cheater is no less or more moral than the one who did not cheat. They simply shared a different set of life circumstances most of which they had no control over.


Like I stated earlier too there are so many ways to cheat our partners in a marriage that why waste time getting all out of shape over just one of them. Simply accept the fact that all of us seek to share our lives with people who are the product of countless different situations and who meet countlessly new and different situations every day. Stop demanding that everyone respond to all of this in one and only one way.


I am sure that every person married today has in big and small ways cheated their partner out of their full due of love, respect, care, wanting and so on. So I see no need to make such a big, big deal out of only one expression of this daily cheating that takes place in all marriages.
1.cheating by one party is enough to destroy a marriage, if done repeatedly, w/o remorse or concern for another's feelings.


2. Ummmm, NO. We do have this little thing called "conscience". Some of us use it, and some of us don't. Plenty of us had opportunity, and willing parties to "help us out", so to speak. For most of us, cheating never crossed our minds. We made a COMMITMENT, and we stuck to it. Morals and ethics have EVERYTHING to do with serial cheating. A one-time-never-done-again-genuinely-sorry-for one nighter may well be a bump in the road, a perverse opportunity that was taken advantage of. Consistently and willfully continuing the same self-destructive behavior destroys not just the cheater, but the family, the children, trust, and the bonds that tie any relationship, be it marriage or no, together. To say that we all are cheaters given the chance is absturd. We are more than animals- you are implying there is no difference between humanity and a tom-cat prowling on every female in heat.


3. This statement of "no control" is almost hilarious in it's very stupidity. Morals, ethics and values are what the very core of a human consists of.


All in all, I find your condescending attitude very offensive to those of us who have endured a broken marriage thru no fault of our own. Those of us who begged the other to attend counseling, to TALK, to share what was wrong so it COULD be fixed. To the children still distrustful and scarred by the betrayal of the family. I get a feeling you will one day find that for all your "wisdom" you know very little about real life.
 
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