why wouldn't he tell me what he owes?


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malim20 is offline malim20 Post #1  August 21,2009, 1:18pm
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I've recently discovered my partner owes more money than he told me. I knew he had a little debt owing. I've expressed my displeasure that he hasn't told me the true extent of things but haven't laid down any firm guidelines as his past reactions when I have asked questions is a storming off and lots of shouting. Am i being harsh if i say i need to see proof of how much he owes and what he is going to do about it? He says it was before he knew me therefore none of my business and if i am prepared to walk away over money then it's not worth talking about. I took out a loan which was entirely my decision last year and he had half of it to pay off some debts then. I do feel a bit stupid now to have done this and think maybe i am harbouring resentment that he "let me do it". I am very upset and confused about the whole thing. Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
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DancingFool is offline DancingFool Post #2  August 21,2009, 1:58pm
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Your partner meaning what? Just dating, long term relationship, engaged, married?

Anyway, if you are merely dating then his finances are indeed none of your business and mixing finances with just a boyfriend is a very foolish thing to do - something you chose, not something he "let you". Please take responsibility for that and chalk it up as an important life lesson that I hope turns out OK for you in the end.

If you two are discussing marriage, then finances are a huge deal and you must know where each of you is at with that and how money will work between the two of you. If you can't discuss that now, it will be too late to discuss it later. It's simply not an option and you are right to want to know.
 
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brneyedangel is offline brneyedangel — Advice Member-Moderator Post #3  August 21,2009, 2:04pm
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You don't say how long you've been together, so it's difficult to answer this question. However, I wonder why you loaned him money to help him get out of debt in the first place. His debt is not your responsibility, it's his, and whenever you loan a sizable amount of money to people who are close to you there's a high probability for a mess to be the result. The fact that you actually gave him money from a loan that you took out really perplexes me, because whether he pays you back or not, you are still responsible for this money. Another thing to bear in mind is that he didn't "let you do" anything. You are an adult and you CHOSE to do this, and as a result, you need to take responsibility for that choice. Unless he put a gun to your head, you made this decision to give him this money, and the consequence is yours alone to bear.

Is his debt your business? Well, is your debt his business? Are you in a committed relationship leading to marriage, or are you just dating each other? Just because you loaned him money does not make him obligated to disclose his financial situation to you, as much as you would like to know these details, though if you're in a committed relationship, his secrecy and dishonesty would be troubling to me. However, that said, I do think you are entitled to set up some sort of time table for him to pay you back if you haven't done so already. I'm curious as to how you found out that he owes more than he said he did. It could be that he is embarrassed about you finding this out and that his reaction is a reflection of this. Or maybe he doesn't like how you went about finding out. Without more information, it's hard to say.

However, based on his reaction to you, I don't think his finances are your only concern to have here. Does he always storm off like a child and shout when things don't go his way? It doesn't seem like a mature way to handle issues within a relationship, and in your shoes I'd be upset, too, because that reaction is going to remain the same regardless of the issue. If he can't have a discussion as to why he doesn't think this is your concern and listen to your reasons why you think it is, and if he can only have a tantrum about it, then do you really want to put up with this kind of behavior? Better still, do you believe you deserve to be treated this way? If, however, you've already had this discussion and he's given you his answer, then all the nagging in the world will not change it and will only exacerbate the situation. His reaction is only going to get worse because you will not accept his answer, whether you believe it is right or not.

I wish you the best of luck with this situation...it certainly isn't an easy thing to deal with....
 
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Wiseman2 is online now Wiseman2 Post #4  August 21,2009, 3:12pm
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Did he pay you 100% back?

Lending him money was mistake number one.
Mistake number two is being involved to that extent with someone so irresponsible.

Mistake number three is acting as if your are his mother or the dept collector.

Unless you have joint finances, how he spends his money is none of your business,......... unless of course, you are foolish enough to get involved by footing bills or lending him money again....

malim20 wrote :
I've recently discovered my partner owes more money than he told me. I knew he had a little debt owing. I've expressed my displeasure that he hasn't told me the true extent of things but haven't laid down any firm guidelines as his past reactions when I have asked questions is a storming off and lots of shouting. Am i being harsh if i say i need to see proof of how much he owes and what he is going to do about it? He says it was before he knew me therefore none of my business and if i am prepared to walk away over money then it's not worth talking about. I took out a loan which was entirely my decision last year and he had half of it to pay off some debts then. I do feel a bit stupid now to have done this and think maybe i am harbouring resentment that he "let me do it". I am very upset and confused about the whole thing. Any advice would be much appreciated.
 
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OverAnalyzer is offline OverAnalyzer Post #5  August 21,2009, 4:06pm
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malim20 wrote :
I've recently discovered my partner owes more money than he told me. I knew he had a little debt owing. I've expressed my displeasure that he hasn't told me the true extent of things but haven't laid down any firm guidelines as his past reactions when I have asked questions is a storming off and lots of shouting. Am i being harsh if i say i need to see proof of how much he owes and what he is going to do about it? He says it was before he knew me therefore none of my business and if i am prepared to walk away over money then it's not worth talking about. I took out a loan which was entirely my decision last year and he had half of it to pay off some debts then. I do feel a bit stupid now to have done this and think maybe i am harbouring resentment that he "let me do it". I am very upset and confused about the whole thing. Any advice would be much appreciated.
hmm...if his debt came before you and it's none of your business why did he take money from you? Personally, I think you should stay out of his debt and let him deal with it, unless you plan on living together or marrying, either will possibly affect your finances.

He complains that you may walk away over money but walks away himself when you bring it up?

Sounds like he's either ashamed, embarassed, or childish. You pick. I don't know what advice you are seeking but it sounds like money will always be an issue. Tread lightly.
 
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meri75 is offline meri75 Post #6  August 21,2009, 4:08pm
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malim20 wrote :
I've recently discovered my partner owes more money than he told me. I knew he had a little debt owing. I've expressed my displeasure that he hasn't told me the true extent of things but haven't laid down any firm guidelines as his past reactions when I have asked questions is a storming off and lots of shouting. Am i being harsh if i say i need to see proof of how much he owes and what he is going to do about it? He says it was before he knew me therefore none of my business and if i am prepared to walk away over money then it's not worth talking about. I took out a loan which was entirely my decision last year and he had half of it to pay off some debts then. I do feel a bit stupid now to have done this and think maybe i am harbouring resentment that he "let me do it". I am very upset and confused about the whole thing. Any advice would be much appreciated.
If you two are living together or married and therefore sharing financial responsibility, I believe there needs to be full disclosure of both your financial situations.

In your situation, I would be more concerned with his lying about the extent of his debt; than I would be that he has debt.

The behaviour you describe reminds me of some of my staff when I have caught them in doing something inappropriate in the workplace. They think that if they can derail my intention re appropriate disciplinary action, I will let it drop. I don't. I realise the dynamics of a relationship are more complex and emotions are involved ... I can only say that if I were you, I'd be taking him somewhere quiet where he can't (hopefully) just walk away from me and talk to him about it. I'd be trying to aim for rational and unemotional.

I wouldn't insist on proof of how much he owes, that will just embarrass him and he sounds as if he may be very embarrassed already.
 
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tjlpd is offline tjlpd Post #7  August 21,2009, 4:31pm
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Why do you take out a loan for a man who can not be honest with you?? Even if he is honest for you why are you paying off his debts?? I do not understand this at all.
 
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flowerchild66 is offline flowerchild66 Post #8  August 21,2009, 8:09pm
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Too bad we can't attach this thread to the other threads surfacing lately about women who are into guys but find out the men have hefty debt. This should serve as a cautionary tale.

OP, your story appears on Judge Judy type shows every day. I suggest you type out a payment plan in which you state the amount you lent him with the particulars (when, why, etc.) and the schedule of payments you expect him to follow, to be paid off by a certain date. Then, ask him to sign it, and provide to him written receipts for each payment he makes to you. That way he can't claim it was merely a gift. He may balk at doing this and threaten to bail, but that will tell you what his intentions were regarding paying you back in any case. Honestly, I think his overreaction to your questions may stem from the fact that he had no intention of reimbursing you, and hopes all his carrying on will scare you off from collecting this $$.

Sorry you're going through this. FWIW, I agree he should have told you the extent of his indebtedness before accepting your generosity, especially if he knew it would present a hardship for you if he could not do the right thing and pay you back.
 
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malim20 is offline malim20 Post #9  August 22,2009, 2:16am
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Thanks everybody for your advice. We have been living together for 2 years, not married, we rent do not have a mortgage. We are not planning marriage, it doesn't reallly feel very important to me especially as i am wondering what other suprises there may be. When we first met he had been out of a marriage for about 6 months and lived a bit like an unofficial lodger in a collegues house. I moved from a different area to be with him and one day he told me we would have to move as he couldn't meet his financial commitments. I panicked as i have no one but him in this area and thought for my own sake if i contribute by getting a loan and helping him out we could move to a more suitable place it would make more life more secure. In doing this and him being registered to vote etc a debt collection agency have found him and this is how i know he owes more. A letter came which i don't think he read properly, he left this on the side and said oh, i got another one of those letters. I said are you going to respond, he said i don't know I picked it up and read it and said this says bla bla bla, he was a bit shocked and said no that can't be right and a few other vague comments saying it couldn't be right and then went out. This was a night where he normally goes out alone and i have no wish to go along. But still the next day he said nothing and i think well what's going to happen about it. I don't think it will effect me financially, what bothers me is his apathy about what i consider to be important things. I think this reads like i should just chill out but i can't.
 
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meri75 is offline meri75 Post #10  August 22,2009, 4:31am
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malim20 wrote :
Thanks everybody for your advice. We have been living together for 2 years, not married, we rent do not have a mortgage. We are not planning marriage, it doesn't reallly feel very important to me especially as i am wondering what other suprises there may be. When we first met he had been out of a marriage for about 6 months and lived a bit like an unofficial lodger in a collegues house. I moved from a different area to be with him and one day he told me we would have to move as he couldn't meet his financial commitments. I panicked as i have no one but him in this area and thought for my own sake if i contribute by getting a loan and helping him out we could move to a more suitable place it would make more life more secure. In doing this and him being registered to vote etc a debt collection agency have found him and this is how i know he owes more. A letter came which i don't think he read properly, he left this on the side and said oh, i got another one of those letters. I said are you going to respond, he said i don't know I picked it up and read it and said this says bla bla bla, he was a bit shocked and said no that can't be right and a few other vague comments saying it couldn't be right and then went out. This was a night where he normally goes out alone and i have no wish to go along. But still the next day he said nothing and i think well what's going to happen about it. I don't think it will effect me financially, what bothers me is his apathy about what i consider to be important things. I think this reads like i should just chill out but i can't.
I don't think you need to chill out. Given that you are not 100% sure there will be no financial impact to you, I think you should find out. Do you have a free legal or financial hotline you could call to find out? I don't mean to frighten you, I just think it is better you know. It will be one less thing for you to worry about, or you will be fore-warned and can plan accordingly.

If he doesn't believe the contents of the letter from the debt collection agency are accurate, perhaps you could use this to your advantage to encourage him to full disclosure. With the intention being to work out how to sort it out once and for all. Not everyone is smart with financial matters. I'm not, I always need help getting even quite simple payments scheduled, because I can't mentally keep track of my available balance. Just this past week I was mentally adding up figures and overshot the total by $200. Who knows what goes on in my brain ... certainly not me!
 
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