A question about children and toys


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tink333 is online now tink333 — Advice Member-Moderator Post #1  January 21,2012, 12:31am
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We all discuss our relationship goals and within that framework discuss how we want to parent our children as part of conversations we have with our mate as the relationship deepens and as a couple commit to each other.

And, I understand as part of those conversations we may discuss how toys are mostly marketed for either boys or girls and how many of us want to raise our children to be able to play with all types of toys regardless of the gender for which they are marketed.

But, how do you all feel about a couple who conceals their child's gender until he is age 5 so that he can grow up gender neutral and choose his gender alignment when he is older?

Boy or girl? The parents who refused to say for FIVE years finally reveal sex of their 'gender-neutral' child | Mail Online

I saw this article a few hours ago, and my initial reaction was one of shock and worry for the child in question as he grows older that his parents have set him up to be endlessly bullied. For me, this is a huge bridge too far (and I thought I was pretty progressive.)
 
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psgcooldog is online now psgcooldog Post #2  January 21,2012, 12:53pm
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Child abuse.
 
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Mike74 is offline Mike74 Post #3  January 21,2012, 3:04pm
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I generally support the right of parents to raise their children in the manner they see fit. I wouldn't call this "abuse." But, this makes no sense to me at all, and I imagine that this child is going to have to do a lot of work as an adolescent and adult to function in a relationship.
 
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tink333 is online now tink333 — Advice Member-Moderator Post #4  January 21,2012, 8:39pm
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Mike74 wrote :
I generally support the right of parents to raise their children in the manner they see fit. I wouldn't call this "abuse." But, this makes no sense to me at all, and I imagine that this child is going to have to do a lot of work as an adolescent and adult to function in a relationship.
I wouldn't take it as far as calling it abuse either, and what surprised me is that there are at least two other cases reported where couples attempted to hide their children's gender in the early stages of their development. All of the things I learned in psychology courses and my gut tell me that these kids are likely to have more gender identification issues than less because of what their parents have done.

So far, only hetero parents have been reported to have tried this experiment, and I'm willing to wager the media who sensationalize everything they can get away with blowing out of proportion would react very differently if it were a gay couple performing the same experiment. There would be tons cries of 'abuse.' I think the children are going to have some very difficult adjustment periods and are most likely going to be pointed at as different by their peers.

There are better ways to socialize one's child away from the stereotypes of 'girly-girl' or 'tonka-boy,' but I'm not quite ready to jump into calling it 'abuse.'
 
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psgcooldog is online now psgcooldog Post #5  January 22,2012, 8:46am
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So far, we all seem to agree that this is going to damage the child ... to cause difficulty in both the near and long term.

What better definition of child abuse is there than to deliberately do that which will harm a child?

Regardless of how wonderfully "progressive" the motivation may be, it's wrong.
 
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harnomygirl is offline harnomygirl Post #6  January 22,2012, 9:08am
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I'm confused by this quote:

Of that case, Dr Harold Koplewicz, a U.S. child psychiatrist, said he was ‘disturbed’ that well-meaning parents could be so misguided.

‘When children are born, they’re not a blank slate,’ he said. ‘We do have male brains and female brains. There’s a reason why boys do more rough and tumble play; there’s a reason why girls have better language development skills.’


Unless society is what shapes the male/female brain, it sounds like a defense of raising a child without having to disclose its gender.


People shouldn't have to be told if they are dealing with a boy or girl. They should just be able to tell, since girls have brains that will make them talk a lot and boys have brains that will make them hit things.


What am I missing here?
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #7  January 22,2012, 10:00am
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What you're missing is that differences between males and females (or races, etc), although occasionally measurable (test scores on reading compared to maths, say), are far less significant than random variation between people generally.

Further, it is unknown whether a particular measured difference is real, due to something other than inate ability (school systems' predjudice, an overly female school staff, cultural value in the profession, etc.)

Even when significant differences can be shown, it does not follow that there is useful decisions to be made (such as trying to dissuade females from engineering education, since their dropout rate is high.)
 
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psgcooldog is online now psgcooldog Post #8  January 22,2012, 10:43am
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What specious logic!

Why not just raise the kids in a Skinner Box? Of what value are any social conventions or norms?

Perhaps the kid should not be allowed to interact with other, more traditionally-raised children, lest they develop an unhealthy self-concept, that includes their own gender?

Yes, that's the ticket! Solitary confinement ... it's obviously safer.

Some people are just nuts.
 
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boomer_gal is online now boomer_gal Post #9  January 22,2012, 6:39pm
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I can (kind of, at least) understand what the parents were going for, but I can't help but think that it is likely to cause the kid some problems in the long run. Whether this is actual child abuse or not is subject to debate; in a debate class I could probably argue either side.

Having raised a son & a daughter with some efforts at minimizing gender stereotyping, I have come to believe that much of the gender differences are hard wired. I didn't allow toy guns in the house. My pre-school aged son ate his toast into a gun shape & played with it. My daughter never did anything like that.
 
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mitchell175 is offline mitchell175 Post #10  January 23,2012, 7:45am
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psgcooldog wrote :
Why not just raise the kids in a Skinner Box?
My thoughts exactly!

I agree that the parents "mean well". But, some inconceivably horrible things have been done by people who "meant well".

This reminds me of those cases where a child is born gender-inconclusive, like a full or pseudo-hermaphrodite (these cases are very rare, but they do happen). Years ago, doctors and parents would "decide" the sex of their child, and raise them accordingly. Usually, it was easier to perform surgery to create female genitalia, so that's what doctor's often did. Then, when the kids got older, they often found they couldn't identify with the gender role that was chosen for them. There has been controversy in recent years where the new thinking is to raise these gender-inconclusive children as "gender neutral", so they can choose their own path at sexual maturity. But, on this planet, humans are divided into 2 sexes: male or female. Like it or not, there are social norms associated with each gender. Where do people fit when they are neither/either?
 
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