Overweight or Obese - A Character Issue?


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MicMan is offline MicMan Post #21  June 20,2011, 2:08pm
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It must be nice to live in a world where losing weight is easy as is fitness. I guess there must be a lot of glass houses there too.

I recently started a weight loss journey and it is hard work. Losing the weight I want to lose is likely going to take over a year if I want to do it in a healthy way. It's especially helpful when people I know choose backhanded compliments like, "you've done a good job so far, but you sure have a long way to go."

But, despite the fact that I'm working hard and eating right, I'm sure there are some that would still choose to judge me as lazy, lacking discipline and so on. It sounds like the OP would be one of those that would gleefully wait in line to assess my character.

Somewhat related, I read an interesting article on ESPN awhile back that talked about a personal trainer that gained a lot of weight because he wanted to see what it was like having to lose that weight. It was an effort to gain some perspective. Very interesting read.
 
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tangochef is offline tangochef Post #22  June 20,2011, 2:11pm
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shapeShifter79 wrote :
First, this assumes the average American knows how to regulate their eating to lose weight, and given the wide range of diets on the market I hardly believe that's the case. You might suggest that All Roads Lead to Rome but I can demonstrate that's not so.

I look at it as a math problem. It takes 3,500 calories to lose/gain a pound. If one eats same as one burns in calories weight is maintained, and if it is more or less in a given time then one loses or gains a pound. The other component is to avoid fried foods etc.

Second, have you ever noticed that a great many foods have misleading labels or ads that imply they're healthier choices than they are?

Well, there are plenty of resources that would tell you about the ingredients. Also, labels on the food in regards to calories per serving is fairly accurate, but one needs to read the whole thing especially the number of servings in a packet.

Third, have you ever noticed that healthy food costs more? How about gyms, nutritonists, and personal trainers?

I went to Costco and got enough protein for 22 meals ( two prime ribeye steaks, 7 lbs of boneless, skinless chicken thighs), 4 lbs of strawberries, 4 lbs grapes, a bunch of bananas. It was $65. I spent another $15 at a local Farmers market on vegetables. That is about a third of what I spend total on groceries each month. So, $240/month on groceries for a single person, is that a lot? If one were to get a Starbuck's coffee drink a day, that would be $150 a month!!!

If gyms, trainers are an issue, one could hike, bike, do the fitness trail at a local park etc.

Fourth, did you realize medical conditions, family history, and stress can make it much harder for some to lose weight?

Yep, that is why I qualified my statement.
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lunabeach is offline lunabeach Post #23  June 20,2011, 2:43pm
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Food stamps are between $180-200 for the first person and decrease with each member of the family. To qualify for foodstamps, you need to gross a little less than 13k a year. There are many people who make too much to qualify and, as far as food goes, they'd probably be better off if they made less so they could - they probably don't have the money for $200 a month per person for food. Even an inexpensive one bedroom apartment is 5k a year - if you're grossing 15k (net of roughly 12k), that's very, very tight - especially if you've been struggling a number of years (savings are depleted/credit is suffering), you have health expenses, don't live close to work, are attempting to pursue an education, have more than one mouth to feed, etc. I live near Cleveland and used to live in a neighborhood that was all working families (actually, it's cities of working families - Brookpark, Parma, Parma Heights, etc, etc) and they make it work, but they are worn down. People who are 35ish but look much, much older.

This is interesting: Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia I know there are arguments made about people who are underemployed - and they definitely exist, but I lived surrounded by families who only had one member employed FT and, if there was a second adult earner, that person was struggling to find employment/only able to find part time work. Their teenage kids had jobs to help out. They are underrepresented b/c they tend to keep their heads down, but they are not a small part of the population and they're representative of the people who struggle with weight most due to malnutrition, overeating, and lack of health education (they get the union funded "health" information that does not reflect reality; milk is a FOOD for calves who grow to weigh 1 to 2 thousand pounds, not a beverage for humans who are grown...ugh).

Children who grow up in these families and do well financially - make it through college in a timely manner or find jobs that pay more than just a living wage - will continue to struggle with weight and stress. That long term activation of stress leaves long term damage.
 
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eH_Advice_Host_Renee is offline eH_Advice_Host_Renee Post #24  June 20,2011, 2:43pm

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Hi All,

I wanted to make a comment on a couple of things I've read on this thread.

First of all, as long as a member's topic doesn't violate our Community Standards, it is fine for them to post it. If you feel it violates our Standards, per those Standards, you should Ignore and report it.

If you have comments to share that are focused on the topic, by all means post. If not, please move on to a topic that you aren't tired of and that is of interest to you. Also, don't forget that you can Ignore a member so their posts aren't viewable to you.

It appears that the Hitler comment, as it will often do, has taken the thread off course. You are certainly welcome to discuss the use of that name when discussing an issue, but this thread isn't the place.

Given the topic title, it's understandable that members who disagree with tangochef's premise are doing so.

But if you are tired of countering such opinions or just don't care to, I encourage you to answer the questions he included at the end of his topic:

tangochef wrote :

Everyone has different character traits they look for, it is not absolute for each person.(italics are mine)

Also, a person might have so many positive character traits that it might offset the few negatives.

So, is lack of self-discipline a deal breaker for you as a character trait or would you look at the whole package, and then make your decision?
If believe that, focusing on those questions, can result in a really engaging discussion for many.

All the best,

Renee
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Last edited by eH_Advice_Host_Renee; June 20,2011 at 2:59pm.
 
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shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #25  June 20,2011, 2:52pm
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tangochef wrote :
I look at it as a math problem. It takes 3,500 calories to lose/gain a pound. If one eats same as one burns in calories weight is maintained, and if it is more or less in a given time then one loses or gains a pound. The other component is to avoid fried foods etc.
Dear Tango,

I'll focus exclusively on this one point. It's central to your belief that weight loss is simple and underlies your other arguments. And we are both mostly calorie counters, as you well know.

a) Do most people believe this?

Most primary care physicians focus on calories in / calories out.

But my local bookstore is dominated by low-carb diets, zone diets, mediterranean diets, raw diets, etc. It's the same for the frozen food aisle at my local grocer. Books on nutrition and weight loss span hundreds of pages each. Clearly, not everyone believes this is the one simple truth to dieting. And many of these alternative diet plans have high-profile celebrities and PhDs supporting them.

Even if this were the one truth, if most don't believe it, and therefore you can't claim it's a self-discipline issue. Further, if you eyeball or use measuring cups--like most people--as opposed to food scales to size portions your calorie counts can easily be 10% to 20% off. In which case you again gain and not due to lack of self-discipline.

b) Is this the one truth?

In reality, nutrition isn't nearly so simple. You have already conceded this when you say, "avoid fried foods, etc." There's a great amount of nutritional knowledge hiding in that "etc." Calorie counting will take you some of the way, but not all the way.

For example, if you eat lots of sodium the day before weigh-in you'll feel bloated and gain water weight. Most Americans eat too much sodium. What contains sodium? Most fast foods including "healthy" Subway except their veggie delight and oven roasted turkey, salty foods, breads, cold cuts, sausages, sauces, carrots, etc.

For example, labels differentiate between CARBS, SUGAR, DIETARY FIBER, SOLUBLE FIBER, and INSOLUBLE FIBER for some reason. Do you think if I began my day eating a crispy kreme glazed donut it might take a bit more "self control" to meet my daily target than if I began the day eating a bowl of low-sugar, high-fiber oatmeal?

For example, if you burn 2,000 kcal but don't eat, and then four hours later you eat 2,000 kcal... it DOESN'T balance out, any more than if you burn 2000 kcal but don't eat, and then the next day eat 2,000 kcal. When to fuel your body with during and after a workout is a subject of much discussion and depends on the intensity, duration, and your long-term goals. As is what you should eat in the morning and just before bed.

For example, most people notice they gain weight after exercising. The obvious thing we all wonder--did we gain fat or muscle?
 
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shapeShifter79 is offline shapeShifter79 Post #26  June 20,2011, 2:55pm
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Xable wrote :
I have been doing that for the past 7 weeks - to the point where all the employees at the gym now know me and encourage me on (as well as several customers). At the end of that time, weighing and measuring myself in - I lost a grande total of nothing.
My interpretation--through intense training sessions you've lost 20lbs of body fat and gained 20lbs of muscle and everyone is 'encouraging' you while they work up the nerve to ask you out. .
 
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Odira is offline Odira Post #27  June 20,2011, 2:56pm
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Did anybody notice the weight-loss advert that appears between the posts on this thread

Seriously, Tango, I gotta agree with TheThinker's post. Date the thin ones, close the fat ones. Don't get why you are so compelled to beat this horse past all recognition.

Lots of women are overweight. Metabolism, unhealthy diet, easy access to fast foods, a sedentary lifestyle, all contribute The 'softness' that men seem to love about women is what makes it easier for us to gain weight and harder for us to lose it. Not offering excuses. Just sayin.

Since you live in a part of the country where lots of people also obsess over their appearance and body type, you shouldn't have any trouble finding someone who measures up to your standards of thinness.
 
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eha_answer_man is offline eha_answer_man Post #28  June 20,2011, 3:09pm

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"Overweight or Obese - A Character Issue?"

Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't, but, in any case, the cause is irrelevant to me since, when it comes to finding a mate, it is a deal breaker. My preference.
 
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HelenDanger is offline HelenDanger Post #29  June 20,2011, 3:32pm
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If I feel a hint of involuntary disgust for someone, that says something about me. It doesn't make the other person bad or deficient. Physical attractiveness is one thing and character traits are another. It's like comparing apples and pizzas.

The worst judgement I feel comfortable making is, "That person doesn't care much about the impression they make on me." And that could still be wrong because the person might care, yet be unable or not know an effective method for looking any different. However, I prefer to assume a person wants to be however they are.

Tangochef, I'd recommend getting more comfortable with your physical standards for dating. They are supposed to be completely arbitrary and subjective. You don't need to justify or defend them. But neither does anyone else need to justify or defend their choices to you.
 
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AndieIsMe is offline AndieIsMe — Advice Member-Moderator Post #30  June 21,2011, 1:47am
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I think some people are lazy and therefore overweight. But, there are many people who are overweight for many other reasons. Laziness being the last on that list. I also think that some lazy people are just lucky enough to not have weight issues, so you might classify them in your "non-lazy" category, but in reality they are.

Just a side note on how your 3500 calorie thing does always work. In September 2009 I quit smoking and also began a walking routine every day. And I mean EVERY day, not just when I felt like it or whatever. I made time (1 hour plus) to walk a 2, 3, or 5 mile course. I pushed myself hard, setting time goals for certain landmarks/distances and sometimes even increased my outings to twice a day.

My diet was mainly lean chicken with veggies or salads and rarely did I eat anything I didn't completely prepare myself. I also used an online food diary and calculator to estimate my intake of calories and to make sure I wasn't depriving myself of anything. I have a tendency to not desire essential fats when I'm in a workout program, it would make me feel hungrier than I actually was. I believe I kept most days to under 2000 calories and tried my darndest to get it under the 1800 or 1600 mark.

Six months later I has lost a grand total of 5 pounds. After talking with my doctor on my lack of success here are the reasons she lists and why I didn't lose more. First, I had quit smoking. Second, I had started a new BC method. Third, I'm older than I was 10 years ago when melting off the pounds was so easy to do. Basically, outside factors can have a huge influence over our bodies.

Just some food for thought on the many reasons someone can be overweight/obese and not lazy, but still be in those two categories.
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