morningsunlight is offline morningsunlight Post #21  July 26,2010, 8:39am
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This is a thread that I would like to read over and over again. Thanks a lot again.

I think that open mindedness also has to do with comfort zones and sense of security.

I have had a relatively protected life and find myself a naive, thin-skinned, and guarded person. There are many things that scare me or make me feel uncomfortable.

I value sensitivity, considerateness, and respect. Being respectful and considerate to others is extremely important for me.

But I find myself being most judgmental when I feel that my sense of security and comfort zones are threatened.

e.g., I make really a lot of efforts to stay away from people who make "rude" comments or do "rude" things because these really offend and hurt me. A lot of times, however, what I cannot deal with is not necessarily what is said or done, but how it is said or done. If I had an automatic translator that translates any speech into "polite language," I'd be a lot more open-minded. But I just cannot let go of the "rude" part of comments or behaviors and let them define the whole thing.

On these boards, there are times when another poster kindly explains what someone (harsh poster) is really trying to say in a more polite language. Then I feel, "Oh, I see, I now know where she/he was coming from! Make sense!" If I could develop a translator like that in myself, my life would be much more peaceful and open.
 
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jacques102 is offline jacques102 Post #22  July 26,2010, 9:03am
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But how open-minded are you if you find that your circle of friends are all the same, with the same ideas and lifestyles that you simply validate in one another?

My circle of friend is from all walks of life. Just look at all your friends on this forum. There is a very vast difference in the beliefs and lifestyles.


Is it really necessary that all beliefs be shared? Is it simply that it seems life will be easier with someone who agrees with us on most things? No, it is not necessar that ALL beliefs be shared, but it would make life easier sometimes.

Could you live with someone whose religious or spiritual beliefs were different from your own as long as basic values were shared? Would you be comfortable with someone who disagreed with you on politics or social issues? Can you listen to a difference in belief or philosophy that might, in your mind, trigger the thought, “That’s stupid.” and still treat the speaker with respect? Is there not some value in inviting people into your life who might not agree with you all the time even on major issues?

I could easily live with someone who has different religious beliefs or political beliefs. I can listen to differences easy. But it is a two way road. There is a lot of ego that can come into play here. Other people do not want to listen to opposing views at all. Both people would really need to be totally open to this sort of acceptance. It can not be a one sided issue. Ideally, you would both have the same views. That would be rare though.

When it comes to VASTLY different views, you need to be careful what you say you are willing to accept, because everyone has their limit. There are people with such strong religious and political beliefs, this would limit a person with vastly opposing views from even setting foot in their house.

You start to get into the issues, where, say, your partner starts spending all sorts of money or making donations to a cause that you are completely opposed to. What do you do? Counter that with donations and spending on an opposing POV? This could get really sticky if someone is seriously entrenched in a belief that they have devoted a portion of their life to support. For instance, I donate a lot of my time to an organization that consider the constitution of this country to be extremely important and worth protecting. I spend a little of my own money supporting this also. I would really not want to be with someone who is going to chew me out everytime I spend time or money supporting this organization. That would be a deal breaker. I would not want to be with someone who ridicules me in public, knowing that the people we are hanging out with at the time are all opposed to my views, I would not want to be with someone who can not/will not/ or has some relentless goal of dismantling your beliefs.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #23  July 26,2010, 9:12am
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This is a thread that I would like to read over and over again. Thanks a lot again.

I think that open mindedness also has to do with comfort zones and sense of security.

I have had a relatively protected life and find myself a naive, thin-skinned, and guarded person. There are many things that scare me or make me feel uncomfortable.

I value sensitivity, considerateness, and respect. Being respectful and considerate to others is extremely important for me.

But I find myself being most judgmental when I feel that my sense of security and comfort zones are threatened.

e.g., I make really a lot of efforts to stay away from people who make "rude" comments or do "rude" things because these really offend and hurt me. A lot of times, however, what I cannot deal with is not necessarily what is said or done, but how it is said or done. If I had an automatic translator that translates any speech into "polite language," I'd be a lot more open-minded. But I just cannot let go of the "rude" part of comments or behaviors and let them define the whole thing.

On these boards, there are times when another poster kindly explains what someone (harsh poster) is really trying to say in a more polite language. Then I feel, "Oh, I see, I now know where she/he was coming from! Make sense!" If I could develop a translator like that in myself, my life would be much more peaceful and open.
But you should be able to feel safe in a community without necessarily 'loosening up' or developing a thick skin. I mean, there does come a point where somone is so sensitive that communication becomes difficult, but most aren't that way.

Thank you for your post. That's some more of what I was getting around to with my thoughts. That sometimes, we can use open-mindedness as an excuse to exclude points of view that might just be different from ours.

I think one of the key components to the right kind of open-mindedness someone already mentioned...respect for those differences. I think another is a constant guarding against self-rightousness or the mistaken belief that opinion is the same thing as fact. The idea that thought or behavior must never be challenged because of a sense of personal entitlement, or because of those comfort zones or insecurities. Conversely the idea that every opinion or behavior that is different from ours requires us to challenge.

I think there'd be a huge market for those translators. We should get started on a prototype. We can test it here.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #24  July 26,2010, 9:16am
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jacques102 wrote :


This could get really sticky if someone is seriously entrenched in a belief that they have devoted a portion of their life to support. For instance, I donate a lot of my time to an organization that consider the constitution of this country to be extremely important and worth protecting. I spend a little of my own money supporting this also. I would really not want to be with someone who is going to chew me out everytime I spend time or money supporting this organization. That would be a deal breaker. I would not want to be with someone who ridicules me in public, knowing that the people we are hanging out with at the time are all opposed to my views, I would not want to be with someone who can not/will not/ or has some relentless goal of dismantling your beliefs.
Yep. Along with the other thing you said about what basically amounts to deeply entrenched polarized beliefs...this rings true. There are social programs I support that I don't need to be noisy about, but I'm not willing to take grief over, either. I think a partner who ridicules or condescends is a bad bet, anyway. That's has nothing to do with open-mindedness one way or another. That has to do with basic human respect.
Last edited by littlebluemonkeymind; July 26,2010 at 9:18am. Reason: Pssst...how are ya, Jacques? Haven't seen you around much. Thanks for posting...
 
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Can_I_just_be_Jo is offline Can_I_just_be_Jo Post #25  July 26,2010, 9:43am

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Yes. Assuming good intent is part of it. It's easy to dismiss or malign someone's POV simply because we assume we know the intent of their words or actions. We see that even in our community here - the quickness to dismiss someone as a nuisance because we assume that they are posting for one particular reason when we don't really know. Or the assumption that someone who disagrees with our POV or our presentation of it is attacking us personally.

It's a bit of a trial being human and allowing subjectivity to direct us at times when a bit of emotional distance might give us clearer vision. Thanks for your post.
I think this is a great point. I see a lot of people on here that say why are you attacking me. I point out I am attacking their opinion but not them. After reading this post I am wondering if it is a difference in perspectives that causes this. We all know I have opinions but people can attack my opinions all the want, it never hurts me. I am not definded as a human by my opinions. They are only the offspring of my thoughts and like any offspring they can only grow by experience. Experience to an opinion is the critical analysis that in the end it either holds or changes with the new information.

I consider myself open minded and perhaps this is the mark of being open minded. That your opinions are nothing more than your explanation of how you see the world around you. No one can see everything so new exposure changes your view.

I think being closed minded is when you see people gladly tell you I am this or that. It is the "I am" that I believe closes the person's mind. After all if you disagree with what they say they are then you are pointing out an imperfection in them.

Not sure if that makes sense.

Most of my friends are open minded yet we still remain different in some beliefs. They have yet to bring evidence that I am wrong and I haven't come up with anything good to prove they are wrong. The respect comes from the process of thinking that produced the opinion. Yeah, thats the other bit, this idea that it is a lack of respect for your opinion that makes people have a different perspective.

Silly humans.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #26  July 26,2010, 10:43am
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I think this is a great point. I see a lot of people on here that say why are you attacking me. I point out I am attacking their opinion but not them. After reading this post I am wondering if it is a difference in perspectives that causes this. We all know I have opinions but people can attack my opinions all the want, it never hurts me. I am not definded as a human by my opinions. They are only the offspring of my thoughts and like any offspring they can only grow by experience. Experience to an opinion is the critical analysis that in the end it either holds or changes with the new information.

I consider myself open minded and perhaps this is the mark of being open minded. That your opinions are nothing more than your explanation of how you see the world around you. No one can see everything so new exposure changes your view.

I think being closed minded is when you see people gladly tell you I am this or that. It is the "I am" that I believe closes the person's mind. After all if you disagree with what they say they are then you are pointing out an imperfection in them.

Not sure if that makes sense.

Most of my friends are open minded yet we still remain different in some beliefs. They have yet to bring evidence that I am wrong and I haven't come up with anything good to prove they are wrong. The respect comes from the process of thinking that produced the opinion. Yeah, thats the other bit, this idea that it is a lack of respect for your opinion that makes people have a different perspective.

Silly humans.
Interesting thought - the "I am" versus more of an "I think" point of view. I'm going to ponder that one some more. Thank you.

I do think we sometimes get too attached to our opinions or start to view our own as 'enlightened' and others as 'silly' or somehow worthy of condescension. But most times it is just a difference in perspective.

So then being open-minded also includes having a clear self-awareness of our attachment to our own perspective and how we communicate that to others, eh?
 
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DashMN is offline DashMN Post #27  July 26,2010, 11:51am
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I do think we sometimes get too attached to our opinions or start to view our own as 'enlightened' and others as 'silly' or somehow worthy of condescension. But most times it is just a difference in perspective.

So then being open-minded also includes having a clear self-awareness of our attachment to our own perspective and how we communicate that to others, eh?
That, I like. Though I doubt any of us have a perfect mastery of that particular skill. I also think the translators that morningsunlight referred to are something we all need to develop within ourselves. A challenging task, to say the least.
 
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littlebluemonkeymind is offline littlebluemonkeymind Post #28  July 26,2010, 12:03pm
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DashMN wrote :
That, I like. Though I doubt any of us have a perfect mastery of that particular skill. I also think the translators that morningsunlight referred to are something we all need to develop within ourselves. A challenging task, to say the least.
I don't think any of us are cut out for perfection of any sort, but knowing is enough to occasionally bump up awareness.

As for the translators, there's a note on my bathroom mirror at home that I keep threatening to have tattooed someplace where I can't avoid it. It reads: Are you sure?

So, what are some ways that one can develop a translator skill that lets us not close our minds when we hear either a belief, a perception, or an opinion that is not only foreign to us, but perhaps stated in a communication style we don't speak well?
 
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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #29  July 26,2010, 1:14pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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DashMN wrote :
Open-mindedness is more than just acceptance of others who are different than ourselves. I think it also means not jumping to conclusions about people.
My idea of 'open-minded' is similar. I see open-mnindedness as continuing to take in new information about a person, situation or idea. 'Tolerance' can be quite different. Tolerance could be "Let me continue in my ignorance and I'll do the same for you."
 
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insertscreenname is offline insertscreenname Post #30  July 26,2010, 1:23pm
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I'm open-minded enough to know that I'm not as open-minded as I think I am.
 
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