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TryingHardToNotTrySoHard is offline TryingHardToNotTrySoHard Post #1  June 14,2010, 11:39am
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I have a couple of friends who are engaged. He is uber-outgoing and she is friendly, but more reserved. I asked her once why she is attracted to him and she said it was his confidence, since he invited her to a party the same day he met her. I can generally read people and he's never struck me as confident. In conversations with him later, he admitted how he really felt about himself and it wasn't confident at all.

So my question is why do women so often confuse extroversion with confidence? In my experience, it's been kind of a bell curve, with actual confidence on the vertical axis and perceived confidence on the horizontal one. So on the left you have those who are not confident and talk about it a lot and are thus perceived as not confident. In the middle, you have those who don't talk much about themselves, either good or bad, and these seem to be the quieter people (though not necessarily wallflowers). Then on the right, you have most of the super-outgoing or arrogant people whom, for whatever reason, are perceived as the most confident. This confuses me greatly.

Another question is why confidence matters so much to women. Is it that he knows himself better than anyone else and so his opinion of himself is to be trusted since you have nothing else to base it on? Is it some sense of security that if he feels he can lead you through something, he actually can? Something else entirely? It just seems that women would rather go out with a guy who has no real reason to feel confident but is rather than a guy who has every reason to feel confident but isn't.
 
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Sassafras54 is offline Sassafras54 — Advice Official Moderator Post #2  June 14,2010, 12:13pm
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I think your friend might have used the wrong word -- what she liked was that he immediately pursued her by asking her to a party the 1st day he met her. That's not really "confidence". That's "obvious pursuit".

But anyway ... I have found that people who are more at ease with themselves tend to be more confident. I like people (both male and female) who are comfortable in their own skin. They are easier to get along with, there aren't big nasty trust issues, and they're just more fun ... they'll say anything! and surprise you, and so on.
 
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AndieIsMe is online now AndieIsMe — Advice Member-Moderator Post #3  June 14,2010, 12:32pm
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Your friend may have described himself as lacking confidence, but maybe he really doesn't. Being outgoing does take some confidence.
 
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DancingFool is offline DancingFool Post #4  June 14,2010, 12:42pm
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Nobody is 100% confident 100% of the time. Everyone has doubts about things and fears, but the difference lies in how that gets handled. So your friend sharing some of his fears or confusion with you does not equate to him lacking confidence.

Take the very example with his SO. He saw what he likes and went after it. Sure he was probably worried that she will reject him or that she will never come to the party or that maybe that's a really bad idea to invite her. However, he set aside all that and took action which lead to a happy result. An insecure person may have a lot to offer, but ultimately does not have the courage to carry things out. They spend too much time wrapped up in their fears to the point where they get paralyzed with them and ultimately bitter with life as they watch opportunities slide by and others around them succeed.
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TryingHardToNotTrySoHard is offline TryingHardToNotTrySoHard Post #5  June 14,2010, 2:17pm
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Sassafras54, he admits to having trust issues and generally being cynical about people.

AndielsMe, that's kind of my point. I don't think it does, except at the extreme low level. I mean, yes, it takes some to not be a wallflower who never talks to anyone, but deep convos with other outgoing people have revealed to me that the most outgoing and the quietest are the ones who struggle most with confidence.

DancingFool, I know, but is it also not possible that he really isn't confident as he claims? He and I discussed our levels of confidence and he said his was at least as low as mine. He clowns around for people and is outgoing, but it seems to be a front to keep them from guessing what is really going on with him.

All this aside, talking about him doesn't answer the questions about confidence. Why is it so important? Why is a man without it completely overlooked? How does a front of being outgoing get so often misconstrued as really feeling good about one's self?
 
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AndieIsMe is online now AndieIsMe — Advice Member-Moderator Post #6  June 14,2010, 2:23pm
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Why should I take on the guy who lacks confidence? Why make myself be the person who has to build him up when he should be building himself up.

There is no reason other than being a "fixer". I don't want to have to fix someone. He should be working on any issues he has on his own.

Confidence does shine through. It makes shorter men seem taller, less handsome men more handsome and those that lack intellectual power the smartest men alive.
 
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DancingFool is offline DancingFool Post #7  June 14,2010, 2:52pm
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For one, actions speak louder than words, so I'm not so sure anything is being misconstrued. For two, you sound very jealous of your friend and that seems to be coloring your views quite a bit.

So there is at least one reason to avoid insecure people - they don't exactly bring positive qualities to the table - envy, bitterness, needy/clingy behavior, etc. An insecure person is often like a leech that just drains all the life out of you - who wants to be with someone like that. If I want to offer therapy, I'll become a therapist. In a relationship, I'd rather be with someone who has some courage and charisma.
 
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annother is offline annother Post #8  June 14,2010, 3:40pm
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When I was younger, I think confidence in a partner meant that he would be able to cope with life's hurdles better than someone less secure. Now, though, confidence in a man means that he is not needy either emotionally or practically.

At different stages of life, it seems to me, confidence in a man sends a different message to a potential partner. At every stage, though, it is more attractive than men who exhibit insecurity.

I don't think that men who talk about themselves a lot are exhibiting confidence. In fact, it is often a clear indication of the opposite characteristic.
 
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jayhawkgirl is offline jayhawkgirl Post #9  June 15,2010, 3:22am
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I think your friend actually displays a good combination of confidence and self awareness. If someone acts confident and also has to tell you they're confident, they're usually not. But someone who appears confident, yet still admits privately---to a friend---that he struggles with some confidence issues, is actually displaying a healthy ego.

I agree with the previous poster that a confident person is someone who seems happy in his/her own skin. That also includes someone who is willing to take risks, even if it means losing or looking foolish in the process (e.g. asking someone out, risking rejection). They essentially like who they are, but know they're not perfect, and that not everyone will like them, but they're not going to let that stop them from taking appropriate action.
 
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insertscreenname is offline insertscreenname Post #10  June 15,2010, 4:34am
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TryingHardToNotTrySoHard wrote :
All this aside, talking about him doesn't answer the questions about confidence. Why is it so important? Why is a man without it completely overlooked? How does a front of being outgoing get so often misconstrued as really feeling good about one's self?
AndieIsMe wrote :
Why should I take on the guy who lacks confidence? Why make myself be the person who has to build him up when he should be building himself up.

There is no reason other than being a "fixer". I don't want to have to fix someone. He should be working on any issues he has on his own.

Confidence does shine through. It makes shorter men seem taller, less handsome men more handsome and those that lack intellectual power the smartest men alive.
Trying Hard,

What Andie (and Sassy and DF, as well) say about confidence is absolutely true. Would you want to date a woman who displayed absolutely no confidence at all? A woman who averted her eyes constantly, never said much of anything and kept to herself, hid herself with her clothing, or was generally a "wallflower" as you say? Being socially outgoing in the company other people does not necessarily mean one has no fears or insecurities or self-doubts, it just means one isn't socially crippled by them. That, in and of itself, demonstrates a certain level of confidence.

I'll switch switch around what Andie wrote: A confident demeanor makes larger women seem smaller, less attractive women much more beautiful, and those that lack wit a lot more intellectually stimulating.
 
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