Asking permission from her parents


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jayjay is offline jayjay Post #21  April 10,2010, 12:35pm
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...things seem to have gotten quiet around here.

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lindseyk wrote :
It's right there in the marriage ceremony: "Who gives this woman . . . " Traditionally, the father says, "Her mother and I." I don't view that as being handed over in some weird business transaction, as if I am just a thing.
I'm not a historian.....but I'd venture a guess that this tradition from the wedding ceremony actually comes from a time when women weren't much more than chatel and a wedding pretty much was a transfer of ownership. This is what strikes me as a contradiction....that people's attitudes toward marriage and women's rights have changed....but they still love the old traditions that are rooted in treating women as possessions.
 
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cardguy is offline cardguy Post #22  April 10,2010, 12:43pm
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jayjay wrote :
It would seem completely respectful for him to talk with her parents and give them an assurance that he loves her very much and that her well being is of the utmost importance to him. But....that isn't asking for 'permission'.
I think there's a significant difference in the message you send to the parents about how much you value them between asking them something and telling them something.
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #23  April 10,2010, 12:45pm

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jayjay wrote :
I'm not a historian.....but I'd venture a guess that this tradition from the wedding ceremony actually comes from a time when women weren't much more than chatel and a wedding pretty much was a transfer of ownership. This is what strikes me as a contradiction....that people's attitudes toward marriage and women's rights have changed....but they still love the old traditions that are rooted in treating women as possessions.
Well, I'm not a feminist so I don't have big issues with 'tradition', which is often seen as bad. But like I said, my views aren't for everyone. What I do know is that my parents do not own me and have never claimed to. They are responsible for me and there is a difference. My future husband will not own me either, but he will be responsible for me. My dad will be passing responsibility for me to my husband. That will be hard for him because he has cared for me and watched out for me my whole life. He will still care for me when I am married, but he won't be responsible for me. The day he walks me down the aisle will be a significant day. I am his baby girl and he will be taking a significant step back. He has watched me grow up and become independent, but getting married is a whole other ballgame. He will no longer be the person I go to first and that's a big change.

My views are drawn from the Bible, which I know is not particularly popular these days. I don't mind if people disagree with me or find my opinions strange, weird, contradictory, or whatever. I respect my parents and I am hoping to find a man who respects them too. Someone for whom family means as much to them as it does to me.
 
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chicgal is offline chicgal Post #24  April 10,2010, 12:45pm
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The custom might be different within certain cultures but those you question ( since a recent post mentions your engagement) is not exactly a means of "transfer" but an introduction of you as the future son in law, brother in law, cousin in law 2nd & 3rd time removed....you're the new kid on the block...in all sense of the word.
You will not only be expected to provide emotion and financial means for her but somehow to her family in the future.
Unfortunately for some, FAMILY is that, you will need to be ready for the reality of this....I'm sure you are aware of the recent numbers of Holy Week visitors to your area from Mexico...that is just a sampling of what happens to ones home when "family" comes knocking on the door for a place to stay or to be entertained.
Unless, she comes from a well to do family...most will depend on her and you.
...Quick question...with so much formality...how was the engagement party? Officially, that is part of the custom as well?
Best Wishes
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #25  April 10,2010, 12:50pm
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lindseyk wrote :
I think parents deserve the respect of being asked and the opportunity to give their blessing to the new couple. When it comes right down to it, marriage means that parents really are letting go of their daughter - this person they have known since infancy, a person they dreamed about before birth and made plans for. They are giving her to someone else. That's a pretty big deal.

Why is this different for a female or a male child?

I have an issue with the gender-role aspect of it. That would make me wonder what other gender-role (or generational-role) suprises might be lurking.
 
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cp30 is offline cp30 Post #26  April 10,2010, 12:52pm

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jayjay wrote :
There are many ways that respect can be shown. Is asking permission necessary to show respect?

"They are giving her to someone else." Again....that sounds quite a bit like what I mentioned about 'ownership'.
him suggesting or even agreeing to go to my town, meet my extended family, learn the sensitivities, controversies, and tolerate any possible drama and discomfort is respect enough for me.

I'm 33. Informing my parents he intends to marry me and making an effort to get to know them is plenty respectful to me.

Asking them persmission is a bit laughable, though nice I guess if you are in to tradition.

I should say: it's laughable to me.

If you are dating someone whose family would find it very important or the woman would, I guess it wouldn't hurt to go from 'infrom' to 'ask'

and if they don't agree, well then go all crazy medieval on them and start the 'we love each other and do whatever we want wether you like it or not' stuff.

Anyway, it wouldn't offend me if a guy wanted to ask my parents but in my situation it would make me question how well he knew me and my family situation.
Last edited by cp30; April 10,2010 at 12:57pm.
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #27  April 10,2010, 12:57pm

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D_Lion wrote :
Why is this different for a female or a male child?

I have an issue with the gender-role aspect of it. That would make me wonder what other gender-role (or generational-role) suprises might be lurking.
It goes back to my views on authority in families, which are drawn from the Bible. A lot of people have issues with what the Bible says on that topic, particularly with regard to women. A lot of people think it's sexist. I don't. But I would rather not get into that discussion because I fear it would be an argument that would just go in circles.

Suffice it to say that I am unique, if you like. I don't mind that. I've never really fit in with the crowd. lol
 
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cp30 is offline cp30 Post #28  April 10,2010, 1:03pm

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some people have deadbeat parents, some brides ask someone entirely different than her father to 'give them away' it helps to know the woman and her situation best.

The Bible doesn't condemn those that have less than perfect circumstances, either.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #29  April 10,2010, 1:05pm
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Yes, I quoted your post, where the reasoning was more clear.

My question though, better applies to others ...
 
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lindseyk is offline lindseyk Post #30  April 10,2010, 1:14pm

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cp30 wrote :
some people have deadbeat parents, some brides ask someone entirely different than her father to 'give them away' it helps to know the woman and her situation best.

The Bible doesn't condemn those that have less than perfect circumstances, either.
I don't know if this was directed at me, but I never said anything about the Bible condemning people who have less than perfect circumstances. I have no reason to disagree with you that some people have deadbeat parents and that some women have another give them away. I know there are situations like that. I have friends in situations like that. I wouldn't sit in judgement on them because they don't agree with me or take a different approach. That seems pointless and less than kind.

I'm not trying to change anyone's mind here. My views are my own and they do work for me, personally. And I'm okay with them working only for me.
 
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