"Compromise" on a MH/CT sociopolitical issue


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Iconography is offline Iconography Post #1  February 19,2010, 6:57am
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First, maybe, in a series of MH/CT questions! (Or maybe not.)

Among my Must Haves/Can't Stands is

wrote :
Racist...
I can't stand someone who believes that any particular ethnic group to which they belong is superior to the rest of humanity.
Just the other day I became aware of the fact that my guy does not meet this standard. He does not believe that whites are superior (for example, he has a very negative view of aspects of Western [that is, white-dominated] culture, particularly regarding unrestrained capitalism) but he does have has a particular racial/ethnic prejudice, believing a certain people to be (biologically) inferior, based on both his personal sociopolitical observations (worldwide) and on various statistics. I know that he interacts with people of this background fairly regularly and that he'd lose his assignments if he didn't do so with professionalism, courtesy, and grace.

But his conclusions bother me, and bother me a lot. It's not as though I haven't encountered them before. Most, if not all, of my own family believes the same thing, and I'm no less close to any of them on account of it. Because my guy is very liberal (though not stereotypically), and has at least one good friend who belongs to this ethnic group, this revelation came as a shock to me. I tried to muster an argument against it, but because this is not my field, I don't have more than anecdotal counterarguments... and he just trots out even more examples of his own "proving" his point.

It is not one of those things that is likely to have a "practical" input in our daily lives, in the event that what we have turns into a real relationship. We are both white. There won't be any perpetuation of the prejudice, because we would not be having (or adopting) children. I myself have no friends (only colleagues, whom I don't know well) of this ethnicity. We are both atheists, so the threat of divine retribution for either of us is also not on the table.

I suppose I need to make up my mind: do (or should) I hold this principle above the possibility of a LTR? Do I sacrifice what might be life-long contentedness (and adventure) for the sake of people I don't know and who aren't going to receive any benefit from my sacrifice? (Leaving him won't do anything to change his mind.)

Input from all sides (male, female, black, white, Asian, Hispanic, etc., prejudiced, not... even the equally confused) would be welcome as I wrangle with this.
Last edited by Iconography; February 19,2010 at 7:01am.
 
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nophotos is offline nophotos Post #2  February 19,2010, 7:12am
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That's a tough one. It's one of my MH/CS, too. I can't seem to wrap my brain around someone thinking another human being is less than.

Without more info, I'd have to know why he thinks this way (sounds like you've both discussed). Then I'd decide if it was in a context I could live with. I was married to a man who had a couple extreme prejudices, or views; they had nothing to do with our marriage ending. We were able to agree to disagree about them. In the end, I would have to weigh if it changed my opinion of who he is as a person.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #3  February 19,2010, 7:20am

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Without getting into too many specifics, can you give a general idea of what his stance is on the issue?

Does he specifically think there are biological differences between races that make one more superior than the other? Or is it more a belief about a culture than biology being more superior?

Just curious...
 
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StuckOnYou is offline StuckOnYou Post #4  February 19,2010, 7:27am
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What someone thinks does matter, but is not as important as how someone acts as a result of their thoughts. Provided they treated members of this group with the same respect, courtesy, etc., they extended to everyone else, I might be able to accept it.

On the other hand, if they felt so strongly about it that they were using statistics and other means to justify their conclusions, this would be a big red flag to me.

Just sayin'...
 
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Iconography is offline Iconography Post #5  February 19,2010, 7:38am
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I suppose I could try to fill in those blanks. He believes that the difference must be biological--or at least transcend culture--because he observes the same "failures" in different parts of the world in terms of this race. (I suppose there's no hiding that the race in question is black.) First, there are the lopsided crime statistics in this country. Second, he sees no successful "black" state, either in Africa or in this hemisphere, where he points to the poorest and least successful Latin American states, which happen to be dominated by people of African (rather than Hispanic or indigenous) descent. (Don't pin these claims on me, please!)

He can point to individuals who do not fit the mold that his prejudice presses onto their race, but they are (he says) rare.

I know he's wrong. I am sure that I could muster (or locate) a logical, well-organized, etc. argument "proving" that he is mistaken. But I really do not have time (I have too much work as it is), this is not my field, and he's unwaveringly stubborn in his opinions. He reminds me of a brother of mine, that way.

Changing his opinions is out of the question--as is changing mine. It's a matter of either 1) accepting his opinions for what they are (that is, they are his opinions) and living with them or 2) rejecting them and the relationship.

(I don't want this to devolve into a black-vs-white debate, or a debate about US crime statistics, slavery, Latin American history, European colonialism and oppression in Africa, etc., etc. etc.. The question is simply about accepting or rejecting someone else's prejudices, and the relationship along with it.)
Last edited by Iconography; February 19,2010 at 7:44am.
 
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Iconography is offline Iconography Post #6  February 19,2010, 7:46am
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(I maybe should add that he didn't quote specific statistics. He just said, more or less, "Look at statistics.")
 
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Nanette is offline Nanette Post #7  February 19,2010, 7:50am
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I would reject him on that basis. Holding that view would be completely and abhorrently unacceptable to me. I would think less of him as a person because of his attitude. I would view him as someone that uses his particular selective scope of knowledge on a subject to view another human being as less than, and regardless of how he treats them, he would be history.
 
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StuckOnYou is offline StuckOnYou Post #8  February 19,2010, 8:00am
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Based on your last post, I'm with Nanette, I would reject a potential partner based on what you have described.

Maybe he should read Guns, Germs and Steel.
 
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neardc is offline neardc Post #9  February 19,2010, 8:20am
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I agree with Nanette as well.

If he is continuing to hold these views, it is because he is choosing to. Presumably there are other areas in life where he is open to having his views challenged and changed, but not so with this one. He is determined to maintain his views, despite the availability of other evidence.

It's very easy for any of us to fall victim to the "anecdote as fact" fallacy. Because we interpret our own immediate experience in a particular way and as valid, we assume that this means both that we are correct, and that our conclusions are generalizable to the greater Universe. Although this is sometimes an accurate belief, very often it is not. However, it can be much more difficult to challenge one's dearly held beliefs that are based on personal experience than it is to challenge beliefs arrived at by an analysis of external data.

Geneticists will tell us that there actually are no biologically distinct races. Race is in fact a social construction. So, how can racial differences be biologically driven? But, that's getting into the facts of the matter and away from the question of how you handle the situation.

There really is no right or wrong answer for your situation. It's what your gut tells you. For me, it would be too fundamental a difference in basic values to proceed, but that doesn't mean that it would be wrong for you to choose to continue to see if you can work things out with him. Even if this does signal to you that you will ultimately not be compatible with this man, that doesn't mean that you made a bad choice in becoming involved with him. In fact, this has been an experience that has provided an opportunity for a lot of personal growth for you. That's something for you to build on no matter how this relationship turns out....
 
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nophotos is offline nophotos Post #10  February 19,2010, 8:30am
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For me, there is definitely a difference between opinion and belief. I also believe both can change - as I've done it myself (not on this topic, though).

I think you're right - is it a difference you can live with? The question for me would be does that inherently mean he thinks he is "superior?" It would seem so, but I don't know him or have met him. If he claims no, then I think there's room for further discussion, learning, changing of mind, etc.

Funny, he reminds me of one of my brothers, too. I love him just the same.
 
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