cardguy is offline cardguy Post #241  November 6,2009, 4:17pm
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Sorry, if you are one of the child's parents, the child is yours regardless of it's current physical location. They do not become "someone else's child" simply because you do not have primary custody. Your obligation is to the child themselves, not to anyone else. The easy answer to not wanting to submit your own well being to the well being of another is never to have a child (but really, if you can't put another's interests ahead of your own any relationship will be difficult).

As for the issue of the departing spouse having custody/child support, it's an interesting topic and worth discussing, but there's no point in doing so while the assertion is that *all* child support is wrong. If you wish to narrow your assertion to more specific cases, then we have something to discuss, but if you maintain that all child support is bad, restricting the discussion to a specific subset of cases is simply a straw man argument.
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #242  November 6,2009, 4:18pm
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jayjay wrote :
You all will have to excuse me, I hear my sock drawer calling me to go rearrange it.
Does your sock drawer have a special pet name for you? Or is it just "Hey you!"?

(Carp, now I have a mental image of sock puppets in my head, and they're all calling out to jayjay and saying that he's been neglecting them)
 
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cardguy is offline cardguy Post #243  November 6,2009, 4:21pm
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chawks64 wrote :
Does your sock drawer have a special pet name for you? Or is it just "Hey you!"?

(Carp, now I have a mental image of sock puppets in my head, and they're all calling out to jayjay and saying that he's been neglecting them)
I can't blame him, I mean do you know what kind of sock support payments courts will hit you with if you abandon your foot coverings?
 
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chawks64 is offline chawks64 Post #244  November 6,2009, 4:23pm
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cardguy wrote :
I can't blame him, I mean do you know what kind of sock support payments courts will hit you with if you abandon your foot coverings?
ROFL! Maybe I should just stick to sandals!
 
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mari3434 is offline mari3434 Post #245  November 6,2009, 7:24pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Nothing in my argument is flawed.

If I have not the (ostensible) pleasures of having the children, I (ought) not have the costs.

Anything other than that is what is flawed.

I did the work. I earned the money. Therefore I decide how it's spent.

There is a linear, unidirectional flow of value, and it starts with the income I generated.
Again, this argument/reasoning is flawed. It is not about you but the children. Further, non-custodial parents are entitled to frequent access to their children - and thus if desired they can enjoy the pleasures of their children if they choose to do so.

The Child Support Guidelines take into account the average costs of separated parents raising their children. It is an objective standard, based on the particular standard of living in any given province (which varies). I can tell you, if both you and I were in Court arguing this very issue, you would lose D-Lion (in every respect).
 
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mari3434 is offline mari3434 Post #246  November 6,2009, 7:34pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Ha! That is a funny post from Chawks ...

Though I do not change my values: possession goes to the payor.
While this may be your value (which you are entitled to), it is not a legal argument that would succeed. The Court does not deem children as "property" - and therefore - children cannot be deemed as possessions. Thus, your argument that possession (in this case children) goes to the payor would fail.
 
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D_Lion is online now D_Lion Post #247  November 6,2009, 7:38pm
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I figured this out, thanks, in part, to posts like this, before courts came into play.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #248  November 6,2009, 7:51pm
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Alimony can very well be earned.

Scenario with husband waking up in morning to made breakfast. Goes to work. Goes to gym. Comes home to meal. Watches TV. goes to bed.

He is only earner in family.

In absence of wife, he would have to do those things himself or pay for such service.

Not a bad situation for a guy if all that he has to do is go to work...& all that comes of that is his.

It may be very hard to quantify the value of each partner's effort but that must be done.

Same can said for a situation where one person earns 65% of household income & the other 35%. What did each person do for the other to allow for the earning to occur?
 
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TiffanyDiamond is offline TiffanyDiamond Post #249  November 7,2009, 9:23am
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chawks64 wrote :
But here you are, faced with story after story of women who took NO alimony, and how the child support didn't even come close to covering half the expense of raising the kids. Do you think maybe myself and other caring women would tire of the assumptions and take a hike? A woman can only defend herself from stereotypes for so long, and then she just gives up. Then you're stuck with exactly the type of women you've been complaining about. They're not offended because they believe women deserve to rake a man over the coals.

Can't you see how it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy?

Personally, I got undisputed custody because my ex was an alcoholic and CHOSE to rarely participate in any parenting until we were divorced. We had no viable visitation schedule because he could see them whenever he wanted. I never once said no, though the kids did a couple of times. His parents were given the same consideration. Even though it meant I spent most holidays alone, it was the right thing to do.

My cars were junk, I lived in crummy apartments, I worked fulltime then came home, cooked dinner and helped with homework... yeah, really living the high life off of the child support.
I love everything that you said. I got divorced after a long marriage and I had three kids. I did receive child support but like you said - child support doesn't come anywhere close to covering even 1/3 of all of the real expenses that the children have. And just try to get the spouse to pitch in for the little "extras" that the children need or want. Does not happen.

I can say that in every case of my friends who are divorced they did not ask for any spousal support no matter what their financial situation was. They only wanted support for their children - which is completely fair. They, like I, worked hard, sacrificed, as in I am wearing the same winter coat I bought 8 years ago so my kids could have new coats. That is just one example. Some of us also lived in a few crummy sitiations so that our children could have what they needed.

My ex walked away and started traveling - a lot!! He takes a minimum of three trips per year. And I'm not talking about getting in his little car and driving to the next state - he is taking cruises and all kinds of exotic trips. He bought an expensive sports car, bought himself a new house and all kinds of new "toys" all the while clamining that he did not have money and complaining about having to pay child support. He even took me to court and tried to have it reduced. That was a big mistake because once the judge saw is new income from getting pay increases - she increased his payments. Even when he would bother to spend time with our children they would just sit around bored the entire time they were with him because he kept saying he didn't have money to do anything with them.

So we can probably all go toe to toe on this issue forever. The bottom line really is that some women do take men for a ride when going through a divorce. Some men also take women for a ride - goes both ways. I don't happen to think that it's right for anyone to take advantage of anyone else. We should all get off our lazy butts and work. By the same token I don't like men who complain about paying child support to the ex because they feel like they are really paying the ex-wife. I guess they forget that the children have to eat, have clothes and have a roof over their heads. Not to mention school supplies, uniforms for the sports, expenses for special events, etc., etc., etc......it goes on and on. In case anyone hasn't checked lately - it's expensive raising children!

So we should not be beating each other up. Unfortunately there are bad people in the world and some people are just users. What we should not do is just make blanket statements that all women are bad or all men are bad.
 
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