clearlyoblique is offline clearlyoblique Post #151  November 5,2009, 5:26pm
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cardguy wrote :
Again, this statement is clearly coming from emotion rather than hard data...do you have any idea what child support payments are typically like, as well as how much expense is typically incurred by having a child?

You also wouldn't have any child-related expenses beyond your monthly child support payment. Guess who takes the bigger economic hit once the bills are in?

Again, an emotional reaction without any precious data...what happened to that rational viewpoint?

The bottom line is that being the person who keeps a child after a divorce is not a winning proposition economically, and your illusion of women living a life of luxury off of child support payments is (with rare exceptions I'm sure) a wild fantasy.
Pon farr?
 
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cardguy is offline cardguy Post #152  November 5,2009, 5:27pm
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peg099 wrote :
Well then don't have kids. Because if you had two children, they would probably cost you at least that much even if your wife was living with you!

Kids aren't magically free when you're married. They don't suddenly start to need food, clothes, school supplies, etc only when you get divorced.
^^ Excellent summary of the situation
 
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sabete2002 is offline sabete2002 Post #153  November 5,2009, 5:29pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Paying thousands of dollars per month to an ex-partner, nonimally as "child support," is in fact paying for her house. (Usually his house, while he is left depending on daddy or living in inappropriate, sub-standard housing.)

Since I do not have anybody to subsidize me, I would be homeless if any portion of my pay were taken. I consider this unjust.

Further, I continue to maintain that transfers should not take place to an ex-partner.

***

This thread has really made me mad. I work hard, for very little; all of it is needed for my own, tenuous, survival. There is nothing left - let alone the majority of it - for paying an idle woman!

***

Everyone who has attacked me, you have added to my conclusion, not undermined it.
So, I am entitled to "thousands" of dollars? Why didn't I get that memo?!!

Seriously, I bought my house and pay the mortgage, D_Lion. Try a few hundred dollars to pay for sundry child rearing expenses.
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #154  November 5,2009, 5:33pm
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D_Lion wrote :
Thing is, it is niether here nor there that one man takes himself out of the market for this issue. But if enough men do, then that is an equal percentage (roughly) of women who will not find a marriage-oriented partner.

Nobody has the last laugh.
Actually, I wish more men who are not capable of seeing children as anything other than mere possessions and aren't capable of putting a child's needs ahead of their own anger would refuse to have kids. Having children when one is unwilling to assume the responsibilities that come along with having them is detrimental to the healthy development of those kids.

I actually applaud you for recognizing that you are unwilling and unable to provide for a child.

But not all men see their children as possessions.
 
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D_Lion is offline D_Lion Post #155  November 5,2009, 5:33pm
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cardguy wrote :
How much do you think it costs per year to raise a child?

A lot less than $14,400 / year.

You may be already thinking of the USDA press release stating it "costs" around $400 k to have a child through age 18, which is widely cited by the lay media and which many people believe without understanding the methodology.

In fact, this claim (itself having the errors inherent in survey data), is nothing more than spending reports correlated to number of childern; this is largely the effects from less tax, more government assistence payments, and spending tending to peak anyway in the age ranges associated with children. Not to mentien the differnece between average and median.

The largest component (about 40%) of the USDA "cost to raise a child" is - you guessed it - housing, which one needs whether one has a child or not.

Since I have lived - lived! - on $14,400, I dispute this as an entitlement to an ex-partner, ostensibly as a cost of children.

In any case, Peg got it: payment equals possession.
 
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peg099 is offline peg099 Post #156  November 5,2009, 5:37pm
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D_Lion wrote :
In any case, Peg got it: payment equals possession.
For you.

Not for me, or for anyone who actually cares about the well-being of any child.
 
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sabete2002 is offline sabete2002 Post #157  November 5,2009, 5:37pm
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D_Lion wrote :
I don't know when posts like this are to critique me, and when they are are just belief.

Thing is, it is niether here nor there that one man takes himself out of the market for this issue. But if enough men do, then that is an equal percentage (roughly) of women who will not find a marriage-oriented partner.

Nobody has the last laugh.
Well, you'll be taking yourself out of the market in the mistaken belief that ALL women are money grubbing witches. So far, none of us have convinced you that, while there are some out there with less than noble motives, there are real women out there who want a real relationship based on love and respect not a man's financial assets. And if that relationship should fail, we don't demand anything unless it is to benefit any children that may have come from that relationship.
 
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sabete2002 is offline sabete2002 Post #158  November 5,2009, 5:40pm
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Oh, and if you do have children, D_Lion, you'll find you have riches that far outweigh anything material or financial. You'll find that you will, in fact, do anything for them.
 
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LizziePooh is offline LizziePooh Post #159  November 5,2009, 5:41pm

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D_Lion wrote :
I don't know when posts like this are to critique me, and when they are are just belief.

Thing is, it is niether here nor there that one man takes himself out of the market for this issue. But if enough men do, then that is an equal percentage (roughly) of women who will not find a marriage-oriented partner.

Nobody has the last laugh.
My post was not a critique and I don't think others were attacking you either. Your posts on this issue do read irrationally, especially in light that kids are not a possession but you make no concession to that fact. In fact, that is your point - if someone has more possession of the kid, they should pay more for that possession.

It is a very odd way of looking at kids and is not the norm.

I do think there are a lot of men that have a great fear of getting married again due to financial loss from a divorce settlement. But I really don't fear that there are many men that hold your position on this matter (or maybe more accurately put - how you hold that position). I think you are unique in that.

I do know that the odds are that I will date someone that was divorced and that has a fear of going through not only the emotional trauma but the financial trauma again. But I have faith that we will overcome it - if you knew me (which they will), they will know there is nothing to fear.

***

As a side question, I do wonder how you will assume the risk of marriage if you do want to get married? Would you do a pre-nup? And would a pre-nup even be sufficient - does it only cover stuff prior to marriage?
 
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nightling is offline nightling Post #160  November 5,2009, 5:42pm
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The big picture is, if you have a child, the child loves mommy and daddy and both mommy and daddy love the child and presumeably both want to pay the expenses of said child, which should be equitably distributed between the two parties responsible for bringing said child into the world.

The court doesn't just expect one parent to shoulder the economic burden, it expects both of them to. Yes I get a check (way less than $10k a year) but I am expected to cover the rest of the economic burden.

His child support and my child support together don't begin to cover everything the child needs and certainly not all the wants. Dad often chips in more than he's been required to do by the courts for the love of his child, and so do I.

But that's just what parents do when they love their child.
 
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