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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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scarlet13 and i found out where my edge is and it bleeds into where you resist

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ming_on_mongo wrote :
If you've got some real "proof" besides "I just say it's so", lets hear it. Otherwise it's just a bogus face-saving "excuse" that simply gets repeated over & over as "gospel" by so many other women in various threads here, but with little basis in fact.

Because it's not borne out by the evidence, such as the many men in threads just like this one re: "independent women", who (like myself) keep saying, "yeah, I'm flattered when a woman takes some initiative!". And no matter how many times you keep insisting (just like they did in your grandma's day), that men should always "make the first move", it's certainly not supported by any of the "experts" here:

Inside the Mind of the Single Guy
by eHarmony Staff
"It's okay for you to make the first move... there are single guys out there who might prefer that you make the first move. In fact, a lot of guys report that they like it when a girl makes the first move. It lets them know she’s interested (and it’s a real confidence boost!)."

Who Makes the First Move?
by Dr. Neil Clark Warren, Clinical Psychologist and eHarmony Founder
Q. As a woman I feel a little strange about making the first move . . .
"When you initiate communication with a match on eHarmony, you are not "asking him out on a date" or calling him on the phone... In the early steps of Guided Communication it does not matter who initiates communication.
Not only are most men thrilled when a woman lets them know that she is interested and finds them attractive, but when you start getting to know the men you’ve been matched with, you also may be surprised to find that your attraction for those who you weren’t sure about in the beginning might be stronger than ones you thought for sure would work based on profile alone. So give everyone a chance!

There is one important side note about initiating communication that I feel I must mention, and this applies to both women and men. Sometimes when you request communication with a match, they may decline and close you out, and that may hurt."

So instead of blaming others or playing the "victim" card, let's just be honest about it, and admit that's the real reason why alot of women don't want to risk taking the initiative...

i don't know what the real reason is, since i have initiated, online and in RL, and have no problem with it.

but it sure was fun to see you get riled up and "snippy".
- November 8th, 2009, 05:02 am
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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ming_on_mongo -Seattle transplant to NorCal... hmmm, sun good!

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scarlet13 wrote :
i don't know what the real reason is, since i have initiated, online and in RL, and have no problem with it.

but it sure was fun to see you get riled up and "snippy".
Then why the complaining (or is that something else you just like to do "for fun")...?
- November 8th, 2009, 06:30 am
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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scarlet13 and i found out where my edge is and it bleeds into where you resist

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ming_on_mongo wrote :
Then why the complaining (or is that something else you just like to do "for fun")...?
i like to see people run around and find things to c/p.

you were complaining, so i figured i would complain back. funny how you and melman kinda ganged up on me a bit- isn't that what you said the women on the boards do here?
- November 8th, 2009, 06:40 am
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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scarlet13 wrote :
i like to see people run around and find things to c/p.

you were complaining, so i figured i would complain back. funny how you and melman kinda ganged up on me a bit- isn't that what you said the women on the boards do here?
Oh, and a "victim" too.... be still my heart!

meri75 wrote :
Ming - good point. For me, I don't feel hurt, I do feel embarrassed. It is very hard to approach a man I would like to know a little better and have him abruptly say 'no'. Worse still, is when he then turns around and turns my overture into a public joke with his mates. So yeah, I totally get Scarlet's point too. Most women I know (in my generation and younger) have at least one similar experience. No woman I know has ever treated a man like this. Does it happen the other way about?
Actually I've been to OZ (which is really an interesting country & culture!), but I can also see how it could be a pretty tough place for women (or anybody) who doesn't always appear "tuff enuff"! And no, haven't really seen that sort of crudeness here in the States, so it might be a local cultural thing. And of course just a smile and "hi" can ("safely") work pretty well too! Although no matter where you are anyway, as men can attest, you still have to "choose wisely" and kinda "pick your battles" in the "initiating" department.

But I'm not suggesting that women (or men) abandon all "traditional" expectations, just that maybe they could consider "changing their game up" now and then, instead of say, passively waiting for just the "right one" to come along and sweep them off their feet. Oh, and also whining mightily about it when they don't!

Of course there's risk, and nobody, with even the thickest skin, enjoys getting rejected. But seems to me the ironic flip side of only expecting "traditional", is that there's also probably gonna be alot of other (and less attractive) "traditional" attitudes to go with it!
Last edited by ming_on_mongo; November 8th, 2009 at 08:03 am.
- November 8th, 2009, 07:55 am
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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scarlet13 and i found out where my edge is and it bleeds into where you resist

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Hey, what's good for the goose...
- November 8th, 2009, 08:08 am
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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...oh, and a "drama queen" too.... even better!!
- November 8th, 2009, 09:36 am
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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scarlet13 and i found out where my edge is and it bleeds into where you resist

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So funny that I'm the drama queen when you were the one with your panties all in bunch, c/p quotes from dr. Warren.

Project much?
- November 8th, 2009, 10:04 am
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
If you've got some real "proof" besides "I just say it's so", lets hear it. Otherwise it's just a bogus face-saving "excuse" that simply gets repeated over & over as "gospel" by so many other women in various threads here, but with little basis in fact.

Because it's not borne out by the evidence, such as the many men in threads just like this one re: "independent women", who (like myself) keep saying, "yeah, I'm flattered when a woman takes some initiative!". And no matter how many times you keep insisting (just like they did in your grandma's day), that men should always "make the first move", it's certainly not supported by any of the "experts" here:

Inside the Mind of the Single Guy
by eHarmony Staff
"It's okay for you to make the first move... there are single guys out there who might prefer that you make the first move. In fact, a lot of guys report that they like it when a girl makes the first move. It lets them know she’s interested (and it’s a real confidence boost!)."

Who Makes the First Move?
by Dr. Neil Clark Warren, Clinical Psychologist and eHarmony Founder
Q. As a woman I feel a little strange about making the first move . . .
"When you initiate communication with a match on eHarmony, you are not "asking him out on a date" or calling him on the phone... In the early steps of Guided Communication it does not matter who initiates communication.
Not only are most men thrilled when a woman lets them know that she is interested and finds them attractive, but when you start getting to know the men you’ve been matched with, you also may be surprised to find that your attraction for those who you weren’t sure about in the beginning might be stronger than ones you thought for sure would work based on profile alone. So give everyone a chance!

There is one important side note about initiating communication that I feel I must mention, and this applies to both women and men. Sometimes when you request communication with a match, they may decline and close you out, and that may hurt."

So instead of blaming others or playing the "victim" card, let's just be honest about it, and admit that's the real reason why alot of women don't want to risk taking the initiative...
I don't wanta speak for scarlett but I was offering my own experience of it having tried it a few times.

I really don't care what it says in those ivory tower articles.

They aren't the real world.
- November 8th, 2009, 10:19 am
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nightling nightling is offline
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melman wrote :
It has not been unacceptable for women to initiate since the 1970's, at least. "You've come a long way, baby" and etc.
Melman, I graduated from High School in 1984. I was told that nice girls don't call boys period not just that year, but in the years after in college as well. My parents STILL think so today! My girlfriends have had much the same experience.

You can say what you want, but that was just the reality of things back then. Some of us were a little more rebellious and tried it anyway.

And got our tailfeathers singed.
- November 8th, 2009, 10:21 am
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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Nightling, you can speak for me. Its hard to type on my phone.
- November 8th, 2009, 10:38 am
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