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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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scarlet13 and i found out where my edge is and it bleeds into where you resist

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ming_on_mongo wrote :
... and notice how snippy they get about it, too (the gals, I mean)!
please. some of the men here are the snippiest girls i've ever seen.
- November 7th, 2009, 07:05 pm
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melman melman is offline
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scarlet13 wrote :
what would you like me elaborate on? i think i was pretty clear.
What are these judgments that you think men are making?
- November 7th, 2009, 07:14 pm
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scarlet13 scarlet13 is offline
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melman wrote :
What are these judgments that you think men are making?
the judgements that men are making is that a woman must be horribly desperate if she initiates.
- November 7th, 2009, 07:29 pm
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nightling nightling is offline
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scarlet13 wrote :
the judgements that men are making is that a woman must be horribly desperate if she initiates.
I kind of agree with this. If you initiate, it seems like the guy thinks you are just easy.
- November 7th, 2009, 08:10 pm
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singinggirl singinggirl is offline
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melman wrote :
I laugh when I read women in their 30's and 40's say "I'm old fashioned; I expect him to initiate." This was the standard in their grandparents' time. It's never been the case for these women... they're just making a lame excuse for their inaction. I find that many of my so-called independent matches are not really interested in following the process through to even a simple no-commitment first meeting.

I have a match trying to initiate with me right now, but she's hiding her picture. And nothing good ever comes from that. So I'm debating what to do. I'll probably answer back and include a tease that I expect a picture asap.
Melman, are you saying that women in their 30's and 40's have come from a place where it was always acceptable for them to do the initiating? I fit squarely into this demographic, but this is absolutely not true of the way I grew up.

When I was in high school and even college, girls did not ask boys out....ever. Girls waited at home for the boy to call. The closest we got to initiating anything was getting our friends to find out if he liked us. As a matter of fact, when I came home from college that first summer, dating the man who would become my husband, my mother told me that "nice girls" didn't call boys. This was not isolated to me either; lots of my friends grew up this way.
- November 7th, 2009, 09:20 pm
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nightling nightling is offline
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singinggirl wrote :
Melman, are you saying that women in their 30's and 40's have come from a place where it was always acceptable for them to do the initiating? I fit squarely into this demographic, but this is absolutely not true of the way I grew up.

When I was in high school and even college, girls did not ask boys out....ever. Girls waited at home for the boy to call. The closest we got to initiating anything was getting our friends to find out if he liked us. As a matter of fact, when I came home from college that first summer, dating the man who would become my husband, my mother told me that "nice girls" didn't call boys. This was not isolated to me either; lots of my friends grew up this way.
I was told the same thing growing up.

Didn't stop me though ...

I took it as one more of those irritating things that girls don't do. Girls don't play cars, girls can't be astronauts, girls don't ask boys out. I am tired of it.

I will do what I want.
- November 7th, 2009, 09:38 pm
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melman melman is offline
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singinggirl wrote :
Melman, are you saying that women in their 30's and 40's have come from a place where it was always acceptable for them to do the initiating?
It has not been unacceptable for women to initiate since the 1970's, at least. "You've come a long way, baby" and etc.
- November 7th, 2009, 09:51 pm
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ming_on_mongo ming_on_mongo is offline
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scarlet13 wrote :
the judgements that men are making is that a woman must be horribly desperate if she initiates.
If you've got some real "proof" besides "I just say it's so", lets hear it. Otherwise it's just a bogus face-saving "excuse" that simply gets repeated over & over as "gospel" by so many other women in various threads here, but with little basis in fact.

Because it's not borne out by the evidence, such as the many men in threads just like this one re: "independent women", who (like myself) keep saying, "yeah, I'm flattered when a woman takes some initiative!". And no matter how many times you keep insisting (just like they did in your grandma's day), that men should always "make the first move", it's certainly not supported by any of the "experts" here:

Inside the Mind of the Single Guy
by eHarmony Staff
"It's okay for you to make the first move... there are single guys out there who might prefer that you make the first move. In fact, a lot of guys report that they like it when a girl makes the first move. It lets them know she’s interested (and it’s a real confidence boost!)."

Who Makes the First Move?
by Dr. Neil Clark Warren, Clinical Psychologist and eHarmony Founder
Q. As a woman I feel a little strange about making the first move . . .
"When you initiate communication with a match on eHarmony, you are not "asking him out on a date" or calling him on the phone... In the early steps of Guided Communication it does not matter who initiates communication.
Not only are most men thrilled when a woman lets them know that she is interested and finds them attractive, but when you start getting to know the men you’ve been matched with, you also may be surprised to find that your attraction for those who you weren’t sure about in the beginning might be stronger than ones you thought for sure would work based on profile alone. So give everyone a chance!

There is one important side note about initiating communication that I feel I must mention, and this applies to both women and men. Sometimes when you request communication with a match, they may decline and close you out, and that may hurt."

So instead of blaming others or playing the "victim" card, let's just be honest about it, and admit that's the real reason why alot of women don't want to risk taking the initiative...
Last edited by ming_on_mongo; November 7th, 2009 at 10:20 pm. Reason: typo..
- November 7th, 2009, 10:01 pm
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meri75 meri75 is offline
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
There is one important side note about initiating communication that I feel I must mention, and this applies to both women and men. Sometimes when you request communication with a match, they may decline and close you out, and that may hurt."

So instead of blaming others or playing the "victim" card, let's just be honest about it, and admit that's the real reason why alot of women don't want to risk taking the initiative...
Ming - good point. For me, I don't feel hurt, I do feel embarrassed. It is very hard to approach a man I would like to know a little better and have him abruptly say 'no'. Worse still, is when he then turns around and turns my overture into a public joke with his mates. So yeah, I totally get Scarlet's point too. Most women I know (in my generation and younger) have at least one similar experience. No woman I know has ever treated a man like this. Does it happen the other way about?
- November 8th, 2009, 01:31 am
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lil_lamb lil_lamb is offline
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1. independence is overrated.
2. people are not as independent as they think. if you're not homesteading, you're not independent.
3. i was just thinking tonight that i felt like getting more of a display of affection from my boyfriend tonight. so i decided to be quiet. oh sure, when he sits down to reason things out, he may think he likes a strong, independent girl who speaks up. i'm even sure he does. but it also remains true i far exceed him in ability in the chatter department. i find this more often true than not, that women can out-talk men. anyways, i don't consider it playing weak to shut up; i consider it considerate to give someone else a chance at the spotlight. and you know what else, i think that's mostly what real boss' do. a real leader isn't out there doing everything; a real leader is clearing the way for other people to get out there and do.

short version: i'd reconsider the notions of independence and strong and leadership if i were you.
- November 8th, 2009, 02:53 am
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