I'm attracted to independent women


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melman is offline melman Post #111  November 17,2009, 6:15pm
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Guys don't initiate at work. The indoctrination/training about this sort of thing began just as I was entering the work force over 20 years ago.
 
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Jacquesne is offline Jacquesne Post #112  November 17,2009, 6:39pm
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ming_on_mongo wrote :
Yup, ah tink 'ya did (post #91)! Maybe Jacques is just agreeing with you...

Although I'm still trying to figure out the "Woah, children, settle down now" bit?
It was more directed at posts starting around page 3 and ending around page 9. Don't try to tell me there wasn't a bit of drama going on because I'm pretty sure that exact word was used .

My argument wasn't against anyone in particular, just the entire basis for the (unrelated to the OP) debate about how men tend to initiate first. I find the opposite to be true, as I explained. So yeah, when a woman says "That's what I do!" I'm not particularly surprised considering that was my argument in the first place .

And yes, Melman, that is what I would have assumed as well about the workplace but I just got told the opposite. I think.

Jacquesne
 
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javajava5 is offline javajava5 Post #113  November 17,2009, 8:23pm
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handsomeItalian wrote :
I'm attracted to qualities in a Woman that would turn off a typical guy. I find when a Woman is an independent thinker, her own person, has her own passionate interests, is a big turn on! If a woman is ambitious, maybe a business owner, owns her own home or has accomplished something to call her own and doesn't put up with BS or disrespect from others and is straight forward is awesome! I love that!
The thing I've found is that when 2 people are like-minded in this way it's hard to come together even to get to know each other, especially as a Male looking for these qualities in a Woman...becuz a Woman who's independent, has her own thing going on...doesn't need a man, BUT wants a man who can be a partner, someone who challenges her on her level isn't going to easily let another into her personal space and vice-versa...I find there's an aloofness, a standoff-ish vibe towards getting to know someone who's interested in her.
Not really a question, just something personal I wanted to share.

Is being independent extremely important to you, but at the same time wanting a sense of companionship with someone who feels the same?
Dear HandsomeItalian,

Welcome to eHarmony Advice (eHA) and thanks for posting!

You mention that when two people are like-minded in being independent, it's hard to come together to get to know each other.

Your statement reminded me of something I read by Dr. Neil Clark Warren, eHarmony's founder, to this effect, "Marry a person a lot like you," and "Opposites attract and then attack."

It does make sense and he should know as he has over 40 plus years of counseling and research in the field and has seen what makes marriages work and not work.

It seems that independent people would be attracted to independent people like themselves rather than a more dependent type person.

Perhaps the independent woman's aloofness that you mention is more because she's not interested in that particular man rather than because she's independent.

I know, and have known, quite independent women, and when the right man came along, there was no aloofness. One lady in particular who I knew in college, highly educated with a Master's in Physics and accomplished, asked various men out, found one she liked, and proposed to him. He accepted and they've been happily married many years.

Yet another lady in college asked her husband out and eventually also asked him to marry her. He did and they, too, have been happily married for years.

Those are just two examples of many woman that I've observed along the same lines.

Keep in mind that being independent and being a companion with another who is also independent and wants a romantic relationship is not mutually exclusive. It all has to do with the other person and if the people are attracted to each other across the four levels: Mental, emotional, spiritual, and physical. These four must all be there for any relationship to work whether the people are independent, dependent, or one of each.

Think about all the independent people in the world in very happy, successful marriages: Barack and Michelle Obama, George H. W. and Barbara Bush, the former Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward, Tom Hanks and Rita Wilson, Sarah and Todd Palin, Heidi Klum and Seal, Tom Brady and Gisele Bundchen, Joan Lunden and Jeffery Konigsberg, Connie Chung and Maury Povich, Nicole Kidman and Keith Urban, Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes, and on and on.

Keep hope. One day you will find the lovely, young independent woman of your dreams and she will find a handsome, independent man in you!

Be encouraged. Write and let us know how you're doing.

JavaJava5
Last edited by javajava5; November 17,2009 at 8:26pm.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #114  November 17,2009, 10:30pm
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Jacquesne wrote :
It was more directed at posts starting around page 3 and ending around page 9. Don't try to tell me there wasn't a bit of drama going on because I'm pretty sure that exact word was used .

My argument wasn't against anyone in particular, just the entire basis for the (unrelated to the OP) debate about how men tend to initiate first. I find the opposite to be true, as I explained. So yeah, when a woman says "That's what I do!" I'm not particularly surprised considering that was my argument in the first place .

And yes, Melman, that is what I would have assumed as well about the workplace but I just got told the opposite. I think.

Jacquesne
I do think that both are true.

As far as the actual workplace... well that depends on the environment.

The fact that there are many workplace romances going on does suggest that there is a lot of flirting going on.

In most workplaces, there is a certain amount of hooking up going on. Some require more discretion than others though.

I know that many people warn against it but I know that I would not let the fact that I worked with someone stop me if I saw long term potential.

You still have some people that play at work frivolously but many will be only very selective.

I think that most women are not going to be bothered by a man's actions to the extent that would lead them to file any claim of misconduct.

It is pretty rare & the guy would have to typically be pretty obnoxious.

I am thinking that the professional networking situation is actually a social one so the men might be very inclined to initiate without hesitation.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #115  November 17,2009, 10:46pm
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Jacquesne wrote :
I would assume that work is not the place people are generally looking for potential partners, especially in today's environment. There's far too many problems with fraternization and sexual harassment to risk work relationships in most cases. But that's just me.

And I would be very curious as to how men would be initiating more in a work environment considering the risk. Sure, there's risk for both parties but honestly guys have to be extra cautious she's OK with advances even more than in casual settings because if she isn't comfortable with it you could lose your job or worse. Is it common for men in the business environment to do this? I know in the military it's extremely unlikely for the guys to initiate much of anything purely because of the career risks.

Are you sure men initiate more in business settings? I would be surprised. Unless you're talking about something else in which case I have no idea.

I'm not that familiar with most work environments so I could be wrong on this.

Jacquesne
The risk varies considerably. The military would be very risky in a lot of ways. A big part of that is that it is hard to find another military. If you get into trouble you very well might be done.

Most professions are more broad based than that. Most industries have many companies in someone's area so the company itself is often of less consequence.

With the very, very slight chance that trouble could occur many are willing to take an educated risk.

Most of the time people will welcome flirting to pass the time or to have fun. It is so rare that it goes too far & even more rare that it goes so far as to warrant harrassment claims.

You are more likely to see flirting in the workplace after you have flirted outside of the workplace. Drinks as a group after a long day, fellow employee has dinner party, etc. Once that happens then it is harder to separate the 2.
 
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melman is offline melman Post #116  November 18,2009, 6:22am
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bigfincat wrote :
The fact that there are many workplace romance... In most workplaces, there is a certain amount of hooking up going on... You still have some people that play at work frivolously... I think that most women are not going to be bothered by a man's actions to the extent that would lead them to file any claim of misconduct.
Wow. It's a rare four-bagger. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Without any leeway for any discussion. Totally wrong.

I wonder... are you old enough to have a real job? Perhaps you are still in college. In the real workplace, the things you list simply DO NOT happen any more. And have not for a long long time. Today a man has to be very careful even saying "you look nice today" to a woman at work.
 
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tweet37 is offline tweet37 Post #117  November 18,2009, 7:42am
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melman wrote :
In the real workplace, the things you list simply DO NOT happen any more. And have not for a long long time. Today a man has to be very careful even saying "you look nice today" to a woman at work.
Oh...they still happen. And I don't think it's as uncommon as some want to believe.

And it's risky. For the reasons cited and due to the proximity of the two involved when the relationship ends.
 
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ming_on_mongo is offline ming_on_mongo Post #118  November 18,2009, 7:57am
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Probably depends alot on where you're working. Larger companies and corporations are pretty much "death" on that kinda stuff (as Melman points out), especially since they have substantial HR & Legal departments whose job it is to make sure of it. But much smaller or "family-run" companies, maybe not so much.
 
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scarlet13 is offline scarlet13 Post #119  November 18,2009, 8:28am
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melman wrote :
Wow. It's a rare four-bagger. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Without any leeway for any discussion. Totally wrong.

I wonder... are you old enough to have a real job? Perhaps you are still in college. In the real workplace, the things you list simply DO NOT happen any more. And have not for a long long time. Today a man has to be very careful even saying "you look nice today" to a woman at work.
just because you aren't getting any play doesn't mean noone else is.
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #120  November 18,2009, 9:03pm
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melman wrote :
Wow. It's a rare four-bagger. Wrong, wrong, wrong and wrong. Without any leeway for any discussion. Totally wrong.

I wonder... are you old enough to have a real job? Perhaps you are still in college. In the real workplace, the things you list simply DO NOT happen any more. And have not for a long long time. Today a man has to be very careful even saying "you look nice today" to a woman at work.
I would love to see stats on the flirting to harassment claims ratio. I will bet that the % is in the low single digits.

It is not uncommon for coworkers to go for drinks after work. I think that could lead to a hook up. Hmm, drinks with someone of the opposite sex...that couldn't possibly lead to sex!

Even if someone does hook up... why do you think that they would not at least try to be discreet about it?

Have you ever met a male executive that was overly arrogant? Many people will think that they are bulletproof or that NO woman would be put off by their flirting. Some people like sex more than they like their job.
 
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