PY is offline PY Post #1  December 1,2008, 6:11pm

Sometimes...just be a bigger person and take the high road.

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OK I figured I want to switch gear for a second and ask a sensitive, but important question.


I would like to apologize in advance to those who I might offend in asking this question, but I still appreciate anybody's constructive input.


We all know that in the US, divorce rate is very high....pretty much one in two marriages have ended in divorce. Picking somebody who have not been married before, may or may not necessarily help in 'weather proofing' your marriage from becoming a statistic.


Being raised in a 'traditional' family, my mindset has always been that marriage supposed to last forever...but reality shows it's otherwise. I talked to a (female) friend about this who said that although her preference is never-married men, but due to lack of matching with such, she also includes divorced-no-kids (or maybe one at home)..in her matching and review the divorce on case by case basis.


My thinking is this...if you were married before, vows and all that, but it ends in divorce anyway, what would prevent that divorce from happening again? I want to feel safe in my marriage, knowing that she will be there in case I goof up (and vice versa)...that's what marriage is all about. If I'm not allowed to protect ourselves through prenuptial agreement, but divorce is always an option, I will truly reconsider getting married.


I don't want to say one is better than the other since I have friends who are divorced myself. I am just looking for some assurance that if I were to find somebody who had gone through a divorce before, that it was a ONE time divorce and it was well 'justified'..


I truly would like to find good answers from this. I hope like to have a civil discussion and hopefully without any underlying bitterness or name calling (no reference of past wives/husbands as animals, or any other derogatory terms) so that we can really read and learn without having to go through all the mud like some other thread.


Your positive/civil thoughts are appreciated!





Again- I apologize if this post offended any of you.


PY
 
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bigfincat is offline bigfincat Post #2  December 1,2008, 6:17pm
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The decision to divorce rarely comes easy & is usually necessary. I would not fault someone for divorce.


Many people that have experienced divorce have difficulty making that kind of committment again though. Those that cannot would probably never remarry in the first place though.I have come acrossa number of people that won't remarry.


If someone decides to commit to marriage again, thenI think that you just as good a shot of making it as anyone else does.
 
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graceventually is offline graceventually Post #3  December 1,2008, 7:21pm
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PY, I appreciate that you are trying to ask the question in a sensitive, non-confrontational way. I'm divorced and have almost exclusively dated divorced guys for quite a while. and for what it's worth, here are a few questions that I think are worth asking when doing so:


1. How long havethey been divorced? (If the answer is "last week" or worse, "not quite yet", this person is not ready for a serious relationship. Some marriage counselors use a rough estimate of one month per year of marriage to describe how far removed someone should be from their marriage before beginning dating, but this is a highly personal decision and it's hard to make an inviolable rule here).


2. Can they speak of their ex in a way that doesn't give you the creeps? Can they do so without sounding bitter? Can they say something positive about this person? This should be a red flag if they can't.


3.Are they generally negativeabout all members of the opposite sex? You don't really want to put up with this, right? None of us likes arguments where we hear, "You men are all alike", or "Women!! Can't live with em, can't live without em".


4. Can they admit that they were less than perfect during the breakup of their marriage, even if they believe the other party to be more at fault than they? This one is really critical. You'll want someone who can recognize (and admit!) mistakes.


Just my two cents. Hope it helps!
 
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Songryder is offline Songryder Post #4  December 1,2008, 7:26pm
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PY, wrote :




OK I figured I want to switch gear for a second and ask a sensitive, but important question.


I would like to apologize in advance to those who I might offend in asking this question, but I still appreciate anybody's constructive input.


We all know that in the US, divorce rate is very high....pretty much one in two marriages have ended in divorce. Picking somebody who have not been married before, may or may not necessarily help in 'weather proofing' your marriage from becoming a statistic.


Being raised in a 'traditional' family, my mindset has always been that marriage supposed to last forever...but reality shows it's otherwise. I talked to a (female) friend about this who said that although her preference is never-married men, but due to lack of matching with such, she also includes divorced-no-kids (or maybe one at home)..in her matching and review the divorce on case by case basis.


My thinking is this...if you were married before, vows and all that, but it ends in divorce anyway, what would prevent that divorce from happening again? I want to feel safe in my marriage, knowing that she will be there in case I goof up (and vice versa)...that's what marriage is all about. If I'm not allowed to protect ourselves through prenuptial agreement, but divorce is always an option, I will truly reconsider getting married.


I don't want to say one is better than the other since I have friends who are divorced myself. I am just looking for some assurance that if I were to find somebody who had gone through a divorce before, that it was a ONE time divorce and it was well 'justified'..


I truly would like to find good answers from this. I hope like to have a civil discussion and hopefully without any underlying bitterness or name calling (no reference of past wives/husbands as animals, or any other derogatory terms) so that we can really read and learn without having to go through all the mud like some other thread.


Your positive/civil thoughts are appreciated!





Again- I apologize if this post offended any of you.


PY







No one has a crystal ball on this one. The truth is divorce has been prevalent for more years then we have been alive, it just wasn't discussed or out in the open that much. The divorce rate isn't really any higher or lower now then it was in the 20's or 30's it just was looked down on and women were crucified for it.


We live in a very fast paced culture and it is not family oriented . . . it is work oriented. It's all about getting the car, the boat, the house, the vacations, the careers and both parents working rediculous hours to maintain even a modicum of financial stability and our kids are in Day Care being raised by baby sitters and nannies. No one sits down for a family meal anymore because everyone's schedules are so different, everyone's eating habits are different in the same family.


We live in a society that fosters independence instead of interdependence. We become distant and removed from the family structure in order to survive and/or to prove we can suceed in an office instead of a home. We've become fragmented from intimacy and partnership.


Marriage is a risk these days. It's not a commitment forever unless you can roll with ups and downs but you don't know how those ups and downs are ultimately going to shape you or the other person. It takes certain kinds of personalities to weather these storms and everyday they make a personal choice to stay together . . . everyday, no matter what, because life changes in a heartbeat. "Some of us can rise to love, while others take the fall." A quote from a song I wrote.


I was philisophical here, but you're coming from a traditional upbringing up against a very untraditional culture. You need to find a needle in a haystack here and it will take time.
 
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gr8guy is offline gr8guy Post #5  December 1,2008, 7:30pm
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I prefer to be involved with never married women for the reasons that you've stated. However as I've gotten older I realize that the pool of never married women is decreasing quickly. On eHarmony and in real life I've expanded my horizons to include childless women who are divorced and those with one or two small children.


Never having been divorced (need to be married for that) I can't imagine the pain and self doubt that it causes. I have meet women that blamed themselves for their husbands infidelity and those that had such hatred for the male gender that any error (showing up :05 late) was cause for a berating within an inch of his life.


Both my brother and sister dated their spouses for several years before becoming engaged. I figure that even if I were to meet "the one" today, I'm at least two years away from marriage.
 
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Vaire1967 is offline Vaire1967 Post #6  December 1,2008, 7:59pm
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PY, wrote :

I don't want to say one is better than the other since I have friends who are divorced myself. I am just looking for some assurance that if I were to find somebody who had gone through a divorce before, that it was a ONE time divorce and it was well 'justified'..
i observe that given the divorce rate, being married isn't half as important as the wedding day itself.


i've experienced that i'm a very much different person at 41 than i was at 21, so i wonder if that's a common thing, and many of these people who were married young are waking up 20 years later to find that this isn't true the the selves they've come to know afterall?


When i consider the possibility of having a marriage or life partner, the chances of him being divorced is high. So i figure, heck, i'm not perfect, i certainly don't expect him to be. What matters is that his heart is in the right place, and he's a forward-minded person aiming for ongoing improvement.


i don't think we get a guarantee for anything, PY. You just have to be a trusting and honest person involved with another trusting and honest person. And then commit.
 
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lacedwithhope is offline lacedwithhope Post #7  December 1,2008, 8:23pm
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I am in my 40's and have been divorced for 8 years after a 17 year marriage. It's been my dating experience that in general, men who have been divorced or widowed are more suited for long-term relationships than men who've never married.


My divorce was the result of a tragedy in my family and subsequent infidelity on the part of my husband after he turned 40. He initiated the separation and reconciliation was not an option. I am the only divorce in my entire family and I very much believe in the concept of marriage. If someone were to consider my divorce as a 'strike' against me, then I would respectfully suggest that it is their issue.


I understand where the OP is coming from. But seems to me that a person who has been in one long, commited relationship could be more well-adjusted than someone who has not. That's my take, anyway.
 
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PY is offline PY Post #8  December 1,2008, 9:21pm

Sometimes...just be a bigger person and take the high road.

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Thank you all for your answers, hope to see more of them. Again, I understand that divorce is one of the most sensitive subjects and sometimes it has various stigmas attached to it, so although I came from a 'traditional' background....some of my family members were not immune to the possibility of this before (although they eventually worked things out).


Please understand that my question is for me to learn, to open my mind and to understand about this...not in anyway i'm passing judgment to any of you. Hope I have communicated this in my post.


PY
 
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Aussie_Devilette is offline Aussie_Devilette Post #9  December 2,2008, 2:43am
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PY, I think you did extremely well. Divorce is a very strange thing - I'm of the "been there, done that" brigade. I've also known many other couples that have divorced.


There are some stock standard reasons that lead to divorce - infidelity, addictions (gambling, alcohol, drugs) and so on. Leaving those aside though, the reasons can be as varied as the couples themselves.


I don't think anyone really likes the idea of it. I liked Songryder's post:


We live in a very fast paced culture and it is not family oriented . . . it is work oriented. It's all about getting the car, the boat, the house, the vacations, the careers and both parents working rediculous hours to maintain even a modicum of financial stability and our kids are in Day Care being raised by baby sitters and nannies. No one sits down for a family meal anymore because everyone's schedules are so different, everyone's eating habits are different in the same family.


We live in a society that fosters independence instead of interdependence. We become distant and removed from the family structure in order to survive and/or to prove we can suceed in an office instead of a home. We've become fragmented from intimacy and partnership.


Similar sentiments to my own as I expressed elsewhere - and I do think this has a lot to do with the divorce rate we experience today.


I think oft times we quite simply marry the wrong people in the first place and as Waire1967 wrote, we are not the same person at 41 that we are at 21. Rod Stewart once said that we have to take into consideration we live so much longer these days. Not so many generations ago if you got to 50 you were doing pretty well - today we may spend longer with a spouse that we, as a species, used to live. That is also a factor. There are very few species on this planet that are, or try to be, monogamous. Yet we cling to this concept of "until death do us part" even though so much has changed.


I would have loved nothing more thanto have had that truly extraordinary relationship that lasted until we were taking turns to push each other's wheelchairs and still bothed loved and cherished each other- however PERHAPS it is not a realistic expectation for everyone.


I guess what I am trying to say is this. We can and should all strive for that wonderul love between two people, but there are no guarantees. We cannot go into any realtionship knowing 100% it will last forever. If we are willing to work at it, to tend the garden off love, to pull out the weeds every now and then and fertilise when necessary - i.e. put the work in, we will hopefully reap what we sow.


That is the best we can do.
 
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watermusic is offline watermusic Post #10  December 2,2008, 7:00pm
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PY, wrote :




OK I figured I want to switch gear for a second and ask a sensitive, but important question.


I would like to apologize in advance to those who I might offend in asking this question, but I still appreciate anybody's constructive input.


We all know that in the US, divorce rate is very high....pretty much one in two marriages have ended in divorce. Picking somebody who have not been married before, may or may not necessarily help in 'weather proofing' your marriage from becoming a statistic.


Being raised in a 'traditional' family, my mindset has always been that marriage supposed to last forever...but reality shows it's otherwise. I talked to a (female) friend about this who said that although her preference is never-married men, but due to lack of matching with such, she also includes divorced-no-kids (or maybe one at home)..in her matching and review the divorce on case by case basis.


My thinking is this...if you were married before, vows and all that, but it ends in divorce anyway, what would prevent that divorce from happening again? I want to feel safe in my marriage, knowing that she will be there in case I goof up (and vice versa)...that's what marriage is all about. If I'm not allowed to protect ourselves through prenuptial agreement, but divorce is always an option, I will truly reconsider getting married.


I don't want to say one is better than the other since I have friends who are divorced myself. I am just looking for some assurance that if I were to find somebody who had gone through a divorce before, that it was a ONE time divorce and it was well 'justified'..


I truly would like to find good answers from this. I hope like to have a civil discussion and hopefully without any underlying bitterness or name calling (no reference of past wives/husbands as animals, or any other derogatory terms) so that we can really read and learn without having to go through all the mud like some other thread.


Your positive/civil thoughts are appreciated!





Again- I apologize if this post offended any of you.


PY







I'm not offended at all. I'm divorced, butI truly believed inmy vows. Honestly, things could have worked out but it takes two to make it happen. Even if you give 100% it's still only 50%, kwim? Both people have to really want it to make it work. It would be so easy and nice if I could say it was all his fault, but that would be a big lie. There were things I could have done and should have done. Hindsight is 20/20, oui?


I think things will be better if and when I get married again. Maybe I'm overly optimistic but, then, I'm definitely older, wiser, and not as naive as I was the first time. I will be able to recognize the warning signs a lot earlier and, hopefully, be able to address any problemsbefore it's too late.


At the end of the day, it's always going to be a crap shoot. You have to be willing to take a chance...to take the risk of all risks. Marriage is not high on my list of things to do, but I'mnot going to rule it out. There's still hope.


Of course things would be a lot easier if he's an orphan. Or, if not, do you think it would be over the top if I come down the aisle to Darth Vader's theme so his family would know not to mess with me?


Dunh...dunh...dunh...duhn.duhn.duhn...dunh...duhn. duhn


DUHN...DUHN...DUHN...duhn.duhn.duhn...dunh...duhn. duhn...


Or would that betoo subtle? :P
 
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